Unbelievable - how does this happen?

[alexh1]

I installed a Pella top of the line patio door some time ago and it never seemed quite right because it spit off the inside weatherstrip and water sometimes gets in inside. Finally figured out the problem, not even a beginning woodworker would make this brain dead mistake. Here is the e-mail I sent to Pella -

 Hi, I have an architect series patio door. The issue is difficult to explain but there appears to be a design error on the threshold (see pictures). The bottom, interior weatherstrip is being forced off of the door at the jamb end because there is no room for the weatherstrip - the door inside edge is flush with the inside edge of the threshold. Thus the weatherstrip is being forced off the door edge.
 
However, in the middle of the door the threshold does have space for the weatherstrip. Since the threshold is straight from jamb end to the center end of the door it must mean that the closed position of the door is offset, i.e. the door is not straight relative to the threshold.  In fact you can clearly see this on the outside of door (see picture) The top of the door does seem tight to the jamb thus problem is only on the bottom threshold. This also means that door is not closing flat (its being distorted) and the bottom exterior weather strip is not deflecting water - I noticed sometimes water gets inside the door even when closed.
 
Is there a replacement threshold that corrects this issue? Seems that the threshold top portion needs to be narrower (i.e. rabbet deeper) and the bottom strike plate position moved.

[alexh1]

Not sure what I expected from Pella Cust service but just got the standard "we contacted your local service team". Of course no admission of a design error.

So I think if I rip 1/4" off of the outside of the threshold it will move the whole thing outboard and correct all of the issues, makes room for the weatherstrip at the jamb end and door closes 1/4" further out since the bottom strike moves with the threshold.
I actually had this threshold off once before - had to plane 1/10" off the bottom because door was so tight against it I thought I might damage the door closing it.

Amazing how many issues i have had with this door and supposedly this the best you can get. They got the hard part (latch mechanism) right but its the easy stuff they got wrong (multiple threshold issues, exterior astragal slipped down and lots of tearout on the muntins). And supposedly the darn thing is hurricane rated yet I see water inside sometimes in sunny CA.

[jteneyck]

I have a Pella sliding patio door, probably 35 years old now.  It has always closed and sealed w/o issue.  Not being critical, but are you sure you installed it correctly?  Pella ain't perfect, but I can't imagine their design doesn't work right.  But maybe they goofed during manufacturing, or paired the wrong threshold on your unit.  Did the local Pella group contact you?  If not, call them.  Have them come and look at it before you start cutting things.  

John

[Bob10]

Not sure what I expected from Pella Cust service but just got the standard "we contacted your local service team". Of course no admission of a design error.

So I think if I rip 1/4" off of the outside of the threshold it will move the whole thing outboard and correct all of the issues, makes room for the weatherstrip at the jamb end and door closes 1/4" further out since the bottom strike moves with the threshold.
I actually had this threshold off once before - had to plane 1/10" off the bottom because door was so tight against it I thought I might damage the door closing it.

Amazing how many issues i have had with this door and supposedly this the best you can get. They got the hard part (latch mechanism) right but its the easy stuff they got wrong (multiple threshold issues, exterior astragal slipped down and lots of tearout on the muntins). And supposedly the darn thing is hurricane rated yet I see water inside sometimes in sunny CA.

Pella isn't all that great I prefer Marvin and then Anderson.  If you need to replace I would look at those

[Snipe Hunter]

My guess is the door isn't installed square. Pella makes some decent stuff but it isn't the best. I like their windows because of the folding nailing flange and I can install them from the inside. That's nice on a 2nd floor when you don't want to deal with scaffolding. But I'd rather have Andersen or Marvin. Pella's customer svc is notoriously bad unless you bought it from a Pella franchise. Not so good if you bought from a big box store.

I did put in a Pella sliding door at the last house. 15 years, no issues. I like the looks better than the Andersen and the Marvin was too pricey for my budget..

[Bob10]

My guess is the door isn't installed square. Pella makes some decent stuff but it isn't the best. I like their windows because of the folding nailing flange and I can install them from the inside. That's nice on a 2nd floor when you don't want to deal with scaffolding. But I'd rather have Andersen or Marvin. Pella's customer svc is notoriously bad unless you bought it from a Pella franchise. Not so good if you bought from a big box store.

I did put in a Pella sliding door at the last house. 15 years, no issues. I like the looks better than the Andersen and the Marvin was too pricey for my budget..

Anderson and Marvin have great customer service as does Milgard if you are doing a budget job

[Snipe Hunter]

Just looking at those pictures, it looks like the door was installed with a twist in it. Run a string corner to corner making an x. If they don't match perfectly in the middle, the door is in wrong. That should have been done when installed to check for square and then nailed in place.

[alexh1]

Install is good, I really labored over it to make sure it was as close to perfect as possible since it was my first time. The hard/messy part was the stucco especially since I have custom foam trim on the exterior.

Anyhow I removed the threshold and saw the smoking gun - there are pilot holes for the threshold screws inboard about 1/4" from the actual screw holes (see picture). There must have been a revision on the threshold and someone grabbed the wrong part when the built this. I ripped 1/4" off the threshold and it solved all the issues. It was hard to see from pictures but looking at it in person it was obvious - the doors were not closing the last 1/4".

I'm not trying to be overly critical of Pella but I had lots of problems with this door from day 1.

Virtually all of the muntins have tear out at the ends where they meet stiles and rails and have gaps. i just made a true divided light door and its easy to avoid this. Make cope cut on a wide board first and then rip muntins or use a mirror image backing board. Negligible additional material and labor.
There is a large tear out on the inside door edge cover piece.
One hot day I came home and could not open the door, the exterior aluminum astragal had slid down. It was held in place by weatherstrip friction only. Had to add a screw.
The door was way too tight to the threshold, could barely close the door. Had to take a 1/16th or so off of threshold height.

On the plus side, the aluminum cladding looks very good, in fact the aluminum muntins are probably better than the wood ones!
The handle sets are top quality cast units. Double door seals on sides and top, door closes like a car door.

But still glad I converted from a slider to patio door (had to, the POS Viking was falling apart). Seals much better (sliders do not actually have seals because would be impossible to open the door due to friction), much. much easier to get appliance and furniture in/out and somewhat better security, no wooden dowel necessary.

Also, the low e glass really works. I still have double pane Viking windows next to the Pella. The inside glass on the Viking gets so hot I can barely touch it whereas the Pella glass is barely warm. Terrible heat gain on that south facing room.

I did get a quote on marvin but it came out twice as much as Pella. I later realized I specified hardwood interior on the Marvin which doubles the price. Its odd that they double the price if you specify anything other than clear pine, in my experience clear pine is about the same cost as most hardwoods.

[jteneyck]

Glad to see you were able to fix it.  I agree, the build quality looks very poor.  Not at all like the Pella windows and sliding deck door I installed.  But I have to ask, if you took delivery of the door, why did you accept it?  If you didn't see it because it was boxed, why didn't you complain after you opened it up?  You have to hold companies accountable right away.  

John

[alexh1]

Glad to see you were able to fix it.  I agree, the build quality looks very poor.  Not at all like the Pella windows and sliding deck door I installed.  But I have to ask, if you took delivery of the door, why did you accept it?  If you didn't see it because it was boxed, why didn't you complain after you opened it up?  You have to hold companies accountable right away.  

John

You're right but I think for a custom product it would have been some long drawn out fight. It's odd but my dealings with Pella during the quote process (local Pella sales) were somewhat adversarial. They had a $800 off promotion and they fought me on that for some strange reason. The local guys did not know anything about basic window sizing, jamb width etc., I think they are just sales guys with no real knowledge of the product. I called Pella main office and they were real helpful with my questions and they understood me perfectly even though first time installer.

I read up a lot on replacement windows and it seems this is not unusual, the sales process on windows is often like used cars. It may be because the sales guys work on commission.

I also read that often the repair guys they use for warranty will do more damage than good. One lady said the guy took the door off the hinges and laid it down on the ground on top of rocks etc and thus damaged the exterior, she was livid! Probably the compensation for the repair guys is very low.

So its lesson learned and I think in my case it was a bad day on the assy line but how the final inspection passed is beyond me. Also people like us are more likely to notice these things, only reason I looked at it more closely because the interior weather strip falling off at the jamb ends looked really bad and I could tell that there was no space for the strip to seat.

Could be worse, worked with a guy who ordered a custom front door at Home Depot and of course it was all wrong and he was basically stuck with it. I wanted to tell him it was dumb to order a custom door at a home center... At least with pella I saw how they quote at Lowes - its like a wizard that goes step by step so it will probably be OK to quote but I would not place the order there.