PSA: Water Damage from Inside

[jteneyck]

In another thread yesterday I mentioned how often and extensively homes are damage from water leaking inside the house, from a broken washing machine hose to a frozen pipe, etc.  Most of us think it just won't happen to us - until it does.  I got a wakeup call when the expansion tank on my boiler got a pin hole leak.  My neighbor saw water on the floor of the basement when she fed my cats, while we were away for a week, and turned off the make-up supply valve and called someone to fix it.  Disaster averted, but it really got my attention.  

There are several ways to protect your home from water damage.  I'll only mention a few that I looked at.  

I took what I think is the simplest approach.  I installed an electric ball valve right after the water meter.  It's wired to a switch next to my security panel.  We turn off that switch whenever we leave the house.  It's not foolproof, because a hose could burst while we are working outside, for example, but it was pretty simple and eliminates the problem when I'm away from home.  Someone on here said I was risking an explosion from my gas fired water heater if it became starved for water.  I don't believe that is true; there is a temperature and pressure relief valve to protect against such things, and several years now and all is well.  However, I will point out that my neighbor comes to feed the cats every day I'm away from home and turns on the water when they come in, so that would refill any small volume loss.  The first valve died after about 3 years and I have replaced it with another identical one.  If this one fails in the short term, I'll look for a different brand.  The most important thing is that these valves are designed to draw essentially no power except when commanded to move.  You wouldn't want a typical NC or NO valve which would draw constant power in one of those positions.  Besides the power consumption they are going to go to their default position if the power goes out, both presenting issues.  

There are systems that measure water flow and will close the main valve if it detects unusual flow.  I'm not quite sure how these work, or if they work well.  They are pretty expensive as well.  

There are systems that place sensors at likely leak points, under sinks, under the washing machine, near the HW heater, etc. and will turn off the water to that device, if so outfitted, or the main shutoff valve.  These systems work well only if there is a sensor where the leak occurs, but I guess if enough water leaks any of them will trip.  

John

[Wipedout]

I had a leak inside a wall recently

We had a freeze right before Christmas.  Did all the usual steps - made sure outside pipes were wrapped - set the main one to drip - dripped a sink inside as well.  Well it got cold - down to about 15 (thats cold here and houses arent built for it)

Everything seemed fine.

Two weeks or so later we are cleaning up in the front yard and my wife asks why is there so much standing water behind the azalea bushes.   This is a brick wall with a spigot and the other side of the wall is my master bedroom

So I pull the bed away from the wall and the sheetrock is a little wet by the floor.  Open up the wall and there is water spraying inside the wall from a cap on the copper pipe that comes from the spigot.  Been spraying water for over two weeks - cant wait to see my water bill 


Cut more wall out till I got to dry stuff.  about 8 feet of wall 4 feet up

Never heard the spraying (it was inside insulation)  almost no water came inside.  Wood floor showed a little staining but that is gone now that it has dried.  

Homeownership what fun.

[R Clark]

Our "wake up call" was an event with the washing machine.  The drain hose slipped out of the washing machine drain when the machine was running a wash cycle.  This would be one of those events related to the current washing machine standpipe thread.

LOML was home when it happened; it only dumped two or three gallons of water.  However, the damage was significant even though it was only a couple gallons of water.  Water seeped under the vinyl tile in the kitchen and warped the subfloor ply.  The water also caused the two-year old hardwood flooring adjacent to the area to buckle.   Water also traveled down to the basement and began a mold issue down there.

My washing machine drain hose is now firmly fixed in place.  No more relying on friction or gravity to keep it there.  The ply subfloor settled down after a couple weeks, and I did some repair to the hardwood to pull it back down flat (mostly, anyway).

I turn our well pump off when we're gone from home overnight and nobody is going to be home.  We also have somebody who stays here to tend the chickens and the cat when we're out of town for extended periods.

[jteneyck]

I had a leak inside a wall recently

We had a freeze right before Christmas.  Did all the usual steps - made sure outside pipes were wrapped - set the main one to drip - dripped a sink inside as well.  Well it got cold - down to about 15 (thats cold here and houses arent built for it)

Everything seemed fine.

Two weeks or so later we are cleaning up in the front yard and my wife asks why is there so much standing water behind the azalea bushes.   This is a brick wall with a spigot and the other side of the wall is my master bedroom

So I pull the bed away from the wall and the sheetrock is a little wet by the floor.  Open up the wall and there is water spraying inside the wall from a cap on the copper pipe that comes from the spigot.  Been spraying water for over two weeks - cant wait to see my water bill 


Cut more wall out till I got to dry stuff.  about 8 feet of wall 4 feet up

Never heard the spraying (it was inside insulation)  almost no water came inside.  Wood floor showed a little staining but that is gone now that it has dried.  

Homeownership what fun.

There are so many potential failure points that it's hard to cover all the bases.  Up here in the north we either use special outside valves, or shut off and drain any line that goes outside sometime in the Fall.  Waterpipes buried in walls are supposed to have insulation only behind the pipe, to the outside, although with spray foam insulation that likely isn't the case and might be just fine, I don't know.  My parent's house had a couple of pipes in outside walls.  The house was built before insulation was used and my mom was religious about leaving the cabinet doors under the kitchen sink open and the faucet dripping on really cold nights, that's like -10F up here.  

It's a good thing you found the problem before it got even worse.  It really doesn't take much water to cause a lot of damage.  The condensate pan under my refrigerator filled up a few years ago during exceptionally humid weather, before I had AC installed.  The bracket that holds it in place gave way and the water spilled under the fridge and seeped under the ceramic tile.  It heaved up 8 or 10 square feet of tile and caused quite a lot of work to make it look right again.  This could have been prevented with a sensor system but where do you draw the line?  I can count quite a few to consider.  Washing machine, hot water tank, boiler, every sink, well pump rooms, every bathroom.  Even those won't prevent a problem like you had.  I'm not sure the flow sensor approach would be able to either.  There's no perfect solution but any of the available systems is better than no system, recognizing that bad luck can still happen.  

John

[GaryMc]

In another thread yesterday I mentioned how often and extensively homes are damage from water leaking inside the house, from a broken washing machine hose to a frozen pipe, etc.  Most of us think it just won't happen to us - until it does.  I got a wakeup call when the expansion tank on my boiler got a pin hole leak.  My neighbor saw water on the floor of the basement when she fed my cats, while we were away for a week, and turned off the make-up supply valve and called someone to fix it.  Disaster averted, but it really got my attention.  

There are several ways to protect your home from water damage.  I'll only mention a few that I looked at.  

I took what I think is the simplest approach.  I installed an electric ball valve right after the water meter.  It's wired to a switch next to my security panel.  We turn off that switch whenever we leave the house.  It's not foolproof, because a hose could burst while we are working outside, for example, but it was pretty simple and eliminates the problem when I'm away from home.  Someone on here said I was risking an explosion from my gas fired water heater if it became starved for water.  I don't believe that is true; there is a temperature and pressure relief valve to protect against such things, and several years now and all is well.  However, I will point out that my neighbor comes to feed the cats every day I'm away from home and turns on the water when they come in, so that would refill any small volume loss.  The first valve died after about 3 years and I have replaced it with another identical one.  If this one fails in the short term, I'll look for a different brand.  The most important thing is that these valves are designed to draw essentially no power except when commanded to move.  You wouldn't want a typical NC or NO valve which would draw constant power in one of those positions.  Besides the power consumption they are going to go to their default position if the power goes out, both presenting issues.  

There are systems that measure water flow and will close the main valve if it detects unusual flow.  I'm not quite sure how these work, or if they work well.  They are pretty expensive as well.  

There are systems that place sensors at likely leak points, under sinks, under the washing machine, near the HW heater, etc. and will turn off the water to that device, if so outfitted, or the main shutoff valve.  These systems work well only if there is a sensor where the leak occurs, but I guess if enough water leaks any of them will trip.  

John

Here is my story about all this.  In the late '80s we were in Florida over the winter holidays (17 degrees in Orlando around New Years) and came home (straight through to Northern Virginia) about 11:00 PM to see the neighbors sweeping water out of the garage.  Discovered that a pipe had burst in the upstairs bathroom facing the garage and flooded that entire half of the house all the way to the basement (where it had all drained out, fortunately).  Master bedroom totally soaked, dining room ceiling drooped over the table, kitchen cabinets all waterlogged - you get the idea.  The next water bill showed that 30,000 gallons had gone through (which the water company forgave, thankfully).  Fortunately, the other half of the house (with most of the furniture, carpeting, etc.) was not affected.

The cause of this was insulation for that pipe in the bathroom had been installed IN FRONT OF the pipe instead of between the pipe and the unheated garage.  This house was of 1960s vintage and I'm sure was not up to code even then.

We were out of the house for 3 months, during which insurance covered all costs to rebuild and refinish everything (often putting it back better than the original, I might add).  But lesson learned - in our newer house absolutely every time we are away for more than the day, here is the SOP:

- Shut off the main water valve to the house.
- Shut off the gas water heater.
- Run the hot water until the pressure on the bladder is reduced.
- Do not turn the furnace down very much.

Bit of a pain when we come home, but we have never had another problem lo these two decades since.  Once burned, thrice learned.

Gary

[jteneyck]

Here is my story about all this.  In the late '80s we were in Florida over the winter holidays (17 degrees in Orlando around New Years) and came home (straight through to Northern Virginia) about 11:00 PM to see the neighbors sweeping water out of the garage.  Discovered that a pipe had burst in the upstairs bathroom facing the garage and flooded that entire half of the house all the way to the basement (where it had all drained out, fortunately).  Master bedroom totally soaked, dining room ceiling drooped over the table, kitchen cabinets all waterlogged - you get the idea.  The next water bill showed that 30,000 gallons had gone through (which the water company forgave, thankfully).  Fortunately, the other half of the house (with most of the furniture, carpeting, etc.) was not affected.

The cause of this was insulation for that pipe in the bathroom had been installed IN FRONT OF the pipe instead of between the pipe and the unheated garage.  This house was of 1960s vintage and I'm sure was not up to code even then.

We were out of the house for 3 months, during which insurance covered all costs to rebuild and refinish everything (often putting it back better than the original, I might add).  But lesson learned - in our newer house absolutely every time we are away for more than the day, here is the SOP:

- Shut off the main water valve to the house.
- Shut off the gas water heater.
- Run the hot water until the pressure on the bladder is reduced.
- Do not turn the furnace down very much.

Bit of a pain when we come home, but we have never had another problem lo these two decades since.  Once burned, thrice learned.

Gary

That is a very sound approach, Gary.  It's foolproof, and no pain at all compared to the problem you had. 

John

[Stwood_]

We just flip the well pump breaker off on the back porch before exiting the porch.
If a leak did happen, all that would happen is whatever pressure in the pressure tank would push the present water out of the lines, which isn't much as the well-house sits 4' from the house.