Newbie chiseling question

[davco]

Been working with power tools for 30 years and just started to work with hand tools

I took a dovetailing class and did pretty well cutting dovetails there, using sharp chisels for the first time.

I'm trying to do the same at home, but my own chisels don't seem to pare well at all. I bought two Shapton glass stones (1000 and 8000 grit) and a Lee Valley side clamping honing guide.
I'm trying sharpening either a 25 degree primary bevel or a 25 and then a 30 degree micro bevel. My chisels are probably low to medium quality (Rockler Chrome vanadium set and a Stanley 1/4" not sure what
kind of metal). I really don't know if it's the medium to low quality of the chisels or my inexperience at sharpening, but paring out the sockets is no pleasure for sure.

Any advice would be great:

1) Can i get these chisels I have sharp enough, but they'll just dull faster?
2) Should I just invest in better quality chisels? The Lee Valley PM V11s are quite expensive at like $90 for one 1/4" chisel. Any recommendations on chisels with decent steel would be helpful if these Rocklers are no good.
3) Any suggestions on sharpening.

Thank you,

Dave

[Joe Bailey]

Have you flattened the backs? (the non-bevel side)

Are you producing a burr? (The thin thread of steel which can be chased from side to side)

And yes, better chisels will often have steels which hold an edge longer, but a big part of edge life is (1) the kind of cutting being done, (2) the strength of the chosen bevel angle, and (3) the wood species.

So use your existing chisels to hone* your technique, then move up when you really know what you're doing.


*pun intended

[Timberwolf]

Have you flattened the backs? (the non-bevel side)

Are you producing a burr? (The thin thread of steel which can be chased from side to side)

And yes, better chisels will often have steels which hold an edge longer, but a big part of edge life is (1) the kind of cutting being done, (2) the strength of the chosen bevel angle, and (3) the wood species.

So use your existing chisels to hone* your technique, then move up when you really know what you're doing.


*pun intended

.................
What Joe said......No matter what hone you are using, you will have to produce a burr on the edge...that is essential.....The angle of the bevel will determine how sharp your edge will be but 25 to 30* should be about right..At that point you should consider polishing the edge with your fine hones and after that, on to the leather strop to remove any burr that's left. The type of steel, the bevel angle AND the wood being cut will determine how long the edge will hold up. If the edge doesn't perform to your expectations, you can increase the micro-bevel angle. Generally speaking, the harder the wood, the higher the bevel angle. A higher angle can compensate somewhat, for poor quality steel, or steel that is not properly hardened and tempered. My rule of thumb is...if I can cut the edge with a sharp file...it's not hard enough to suit me.

[davco]

"My rule of thumb is...if I can cut the edge with a sharp file...it's not hard enough to suit me."

Sorry that confused me, cut the edge of what? Is this a test of the steel of the chisel? Meaning if you can file away the metal of the chisel with a metal file it's not hard enough?

[davco]

Is starting at 1000 grit too high, should I start initial honing at a lower grit then move up to 1000 and then 8000? And I haven't gotten into stropping yet, I guess I should look into getting one

[Timberwolf]

"My rule of thumb is...if I can cut the edge with a sharp file...it's not hard enough to suit me."

Sorry that confused me, cut the edge of what?  Is this a test of the steel of the chisel?  Meaning if you can file away the metal of the chisel with a metal file it's not hard enough?

..........
If I am able to remove metal from the chisel edge with a sharp steel file, it isn't hard enough to resist dulling especially on the harder woods. We are testing the steel of the chisel..You should not be able to remove metal from the chisel EDGE with an ordinary file.

I have rehabbed many vintage chisels and that is the first thing I do in the process...If I find that I can file the edge, I break out the Mapp torch and re-harden them...after quenching them, I "temper" the tool by heating the chisel edge until the steel reaches a "straw yellow" color at which point I quench them again. You can check with Youtube to see how hardening and tempering is done..This is not a "scientific" method but it has worked for me for a great many years.

[Timberwolf]

Is starting at 1000 grit too high, should I start initial honing at a lower grit then move up to 1000 and then 8000?  And I haven't gotten into stropping yet, I guess I should look into getting one

..................
1000 is too fine for me to start, IF the chisel is too dull....I want to save time and I start with a coarse abrasive and work up to finer grits. That being said, I prefer diamond as my abrasive because it is the hardest abrasive known and makes short work of sharpening. You can get a very good edge off a 3,000 grit diamond plate, then stropped to remove burrs and polished a bit...

Test your edge by ripping a paper towel with a tool you have sharpened...If it can cut the paper CLEANLY, {special emphasis on cleanly} it is basically sharp enough for working wood. That is not the sharpest it CAN be, but it is good enough {for me anyway}.

There are lots of very good sharpening sites on Youtube ..watching things being done is almost as good as doing it yourself.

[davco]

Timberwolf when you start on a diamond stone, what grit is it and do you use it dry or put some kind of lube on it?

[Timberwolf]

Timberwolf when you start on a diamond stone, what grit is it and do you use it dry or put some kind of lube on it?

.......
It really depends on how much metal I have to remove, but usually 400 or  600 grit is what I start with if the tool isn't too dull..and I use various lubes but mostly I have found WD40 to be excellent. You can use diamond dry but I just prefer a little lube to keep the pores in the hone open and cutting at max speed. I probably have fifty stones of all types but always go back to diamond.

You can save a ton of money on diamond lapping hones by checking out Amazon..Look for six inch or eight inch diamond laps..They are round and made to be used on machines, but there's plenty of diamond surface area for hand sharpening without using them on a machine. I can't say enough about them..They take sharpening to a new level for me..As a side benefit, these six inch laps fit the Worksharp and they work wonderfully...and they save so much time that would have been spent on sharpening. The price is miniscule when compared to the rectangular diamond hones. If it sounds like I am loving these laps, it's because I am..Plus there's no excuse for a dull knife in the kitchen drawer..Your bride will love you for them, and that's not a bad thing either!!!
Diamonds are a woodworker's best friend!!

EDIT...
I also like to power sharpen and have about six machines dedicated to that..Here's a shot of a slow=speed belt sharpener that I made a few years ago out of scrap aluminum and a used 1/4Hp motor..Great for power stropping using a leather belt.

[davco]

Is this where you bought it?

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/produ...k8QAvD_BwE