plane types

[tablesawtom]

I know most plane makers made many different models or revisions to their planes over time. Often referred to types. Stanley types are the best documented so it would seem most collatable. And it seems to be a very important topic here on this forum.

I hate to pop a lot of people's bubble, but I really do not care what type it is, nor do I want to spend the time trying to decide if the front knob is correct for that particular type of plane. 4, 5,a nd 6s go around here at flea markets for between $1 and $30 so there is no real collectors value. Notice I said around here, It could be different depending on what part of the country you love in. So let me be clear I could care less as to what type my plane is. I have some Stanley's but my collection is Keen Kutter K series planes which were not typed

I want to pick up my plane and use it to cut shavings and in the heat of using it, the type doesn't enter in. How ever there are a few things I look for. and a study of what type doesn't enter in. First thing I look for is if it has a frog adjusting screw or not. If it has one, it means it has machined seats. If no screw just keep walking unless you like the looks of the knob and tote and the price justifies new wood for your plane. A lot of really cheap planed have a cast surface on both the frog and plane body. Next I look to see if it has a keyhole lever cap or a Kidney hole lever cap. If it has a keyhole lever cap it means that it is an older model or lower numbered type and if the asking price is reasonable it is worth taking a good hard look at it. Getting to this point shouldn't take more than 15 seconds. If the lever cap operated like it should, the chip breaker isn't all pitted up and the over all condition of the plane plane is in good shape, and right price, buy it. It could be sold by the time if or when you come back.

If it has a frog adjusting screw and a kidney hole shaped lever cap it is still worth a look see. Usually it has a frog that doesn't fit as tightly at the toe of the frog. The frog can get slightly twisted making it harder to adjust the blade so it cuts flat accosted the blade. There is a clip that screws to the frog. It allows for the frog to be moved. Rotating it slightly can center the toe of the frog central to the body. Then adjusting the blade side to side is much easier. In my opinion the rest of the planes condition and price make it a keeper or a walk away.

Personally I prefer to have two of each size. One with a slightly cambered blade and one just sharpened straight a crossed. No one has ever proved that a flat bottom or a corrugated bottom is the best so I have the cambered blade in the flat bottom, so I know what I have when I pick it up. No real reason for this it just happened and I stayed with it. I mean for $15 each I can afford one of each. My 5s and 6s are my main work horses. Since My 6s do most of the jointer work I use my 7 or 8 for a final couple of strokes only and the 8 is the least used.


Tom

[stav]

Around these parts, I don't see planes in the price ranges you find them so I don't do a lot of impulse buys.

I will start looking for the adjustable frog though.

[Admiral]

First thing I look for is if it has a frog adjusting screw or not. If it has one, it means it has machined seats. 

Well, that's not really true, at least with Stanley planes.  The frog screw appeared in Type 10 (circa 1907 or so) and the earlier types certainly did have machined mating surfaces for the frogs.  Now, perhaps Types 1-3 didn't, I've really never seen one of those as they are fairly rare (1867-73), but T4 through 9 I have seen and they were machined.

[tablesawtom]

Well, that's not really true, at least with Stanley planes.  The frog screw appeared in Type 10 (circa 1907 or so) and the earlier types certainly did have machined mating surfaces for the frogs.  Now, perhaps Types 1-3 didn't, I've really never seen one of those as they are fairly rare (1867-73), but T4 through 9 I have seen and they were machined.

Yes,  what I wrote it is true. I didn't say that other planes don't have machined surfaces. I just don't consider buying them. Take the Keen Kutter KK series, they have machined seats but I would not consider buying one. But I have 75% of a Keen Kutter K series collection. The includes both flat and corrugated planes. If it has the frog adjusting lever it is worth it for me to take a closer look. Buyers still are responsible to do their own diligence. 

Some one else wrote.   IN my experience only the really cheap, third tier brands don't machine the frog seating. and I say it helps to weed out some planes. And I hope I helped a beginner save some money and a lot of frustration.

Also I don't pay any attention to types at all. It may of interest some but not me if it has a frog adjusting screw no matter the brand I take a second look and it it has a yellow lever cap with a kidney shaped hole it means the quality of manufacturing was starting to go down hill, be carful. 

Tom

[amtc]

The only Stanley planes I consider are type 9-19. The pre type 9 Stanley's tote shape is not very comfortable and I do not like how the frog mates to the body of the plane. I am also not a fan of Sargents, I am not saying they are bad planes, I just don't care for them. The type 9 and 17 Stanleys (most of the 17's) did not have a frog adjustment screw but are still good planes. I think the type 17's are a diamond in the rough, they were a little thicker than other stanley planes. I had a type 17 4 1/2 that was a great plane. I regret selling that one!

[AHill]

I live in Florida, which is a rust magnet. So I don't find hardly any cast iron vintage planes in the wild. At least in the Stanley world, the types have some subtle differences and to some users, those subtle differences matter. For your purposes, a working plane no matter what the type is perfectly adequate.

And, maybe not officially a "type" but Stanley's Bedrock series of planes do carry a lot of value. They were Stanley's top of the line planes. Lie-Nielsen based their bench planes off Stanley's Bedrock series. If you stumble upon a Bedrock No. 1 or 2 in the wild, and they only want $6 for it, buy it.

[tablesawtom]

I live in Florida, which is a rust magnet.  So I don't find hardly any cast iron vintage planes in the wild.  At least in the Stanley world, the types have some subtle differences and to some users, those subtle differences matter.  For your purposes, a working plane no matter what the type is perfectly adequate.

And, maybe not officially a "type" but Stanley's Bedrock series of planes do carry a lot of value.  They were Stanley's top of the line planes.  Lie-Nielsen based their bench planes off Stanley's Bedrock series.  If you stumble upon a Bedrock No. 1 or 2 in the wild, and they only want $6 for it, buy it.

Yes, you are correct. To me a working plane, no matter, the type is perfectly adequate. However I do prefer Stanley Bailey planes with 3 pant dates on the body to pre war planes. And I also prefer Miller Falls planes  that have the 2 piece lever cap. That is why I look for a frog adjusting screw. It can usually be picked out at a distance. My wife will get a hold of me if she sees that feature, the rest of anything passes right by her, she couldn't care less. If a plane has a yellow lever cap I will look it over really well. 

I do not believe that Bedrock ever mad a number one. I didn't say that there are not some out there, they are just not factory planes to my understanding. Bedrock planes stand out because of the flat side so they are easy to see at I distance. But they also have the adjusting screw. They also have types. Bedrock also made a round side first. But they fall under look for a frog adjusting screw. And I think I will have a better chance of finding a Stanley #1 in the wild  than a Bedrock #2. And I am not holding my breath on finding either.

Also the Keen Kutter K series plane is just a bedrock round side with the casting numbers changed. and if anyone has a K3 flat bottom, either of the K 41/2s , K 5 1/2and K7 flat bottoms and would considering parting with them let me know. Price needs to be fair. but again they also have frog adjusting screws.

Again. I didn't say that other planes don't have machined surfaces I just pass them by. Again personal preference. 

I live in Iowa and the humidity can get right up there so I run a dehumidifier and keep them waxed but I also have an ECE reformed smoothing plane and a couple of wooden coffin planes that work well. ON the ECE the front section moves to control the throat  opening. I believe the reformed smoother has a 50% bed angle not 45 like most planes.. Could be wrong though.

Tom