(12-25-2021, 07:35 PM)AHill Wrote: I recently upgraded my knife sharpening kit with a system that uses diamond stones.  I researched quite a bit to see what people use as a honing fluid and here's my take:

Krud Kutter - Recommended by BestSharpeningStones.com.  I recently purchased a can.  We'll see how it does.
Windex - does an excellent job of floating the swarf and keeping the stones clean as well.  Disadvantage is it evaporates quickly
Water with a drop of dishwashing soap - The soap reduces the surface tension of the water, helping the water to float the swarf.  Must be dried after use or the residual swarf will rust.
Kerosene - Old school honing fluid for Oil Stones, but not necessary for diamond stones.  Kerosene will fill the pores of an oil stone to float the swarf.  Not necessary on diamond stones since they don't have pores.
Trend Diamond Stone Honing Fluid - consensus is it doesn't work any better than other alternatives, and it's quite expensive.
WD40 - Some say it works well.  Others don't like that it displaces water, and could interfere with cleaning the stone later.
Mineral Oil - Works well to float the swarf, but it's a lubricant as well, so it'll reduce the effectiveness of the stone.  (Don't use a hardening oil like cooking oil.)
LA's Awesome Cleaner - cheap, and floats the swarf.

One other caution to note.  Some diamond stones use nickel as the substrate.  Ammonia (e.g. Windex) will degrade the nickel, weakening it's bind on the diamonds.  Windex contains ammonia, but they do sell an ammonia free version intended for car windows.


Here is a link to an older thread here that discusses the same subject:
https://forums.woodnet.net/showthread.php?tid=7345956

(12-26-2021, 03:57 PM)tablesawtom Wrote: Ammonia (e.g. Windex) will degrade the nickel, weakening it's bind on the diamonds.  Windex contains ammonia, but they do sell an ammonia free version intended for car windows.

If I were a company selling blade cleaning fluids that is exactly the propaganda I would spread. That information is at least 50 years old. The reason was and is to stop people from using easy off oven cleaner and to use their product instead. In other wards scare people out of using a product.  It is funny how it doesn't hurt an oven but it does attack silver solder and now nickel. I believe Nickel is one of the metals used in a thermostat, but somehow it doesn't effect an ovens thermostat. Maybe it is a special form of Nickel. That rates right up there with freon 12 is causing holes in the ozone layer. DuPont's 17 year patent ran out and they needed another refrigerant . After the prices' went up at east 4 times and the fact that now they can charge you to get rid of a refrigerator. the problem went away. Ever wonder about the fact that everything is known to cause cancer to the state of California.( Proposition whatever) There is nothing about being harmful to Nickel or silver solder on the ammonia bottle. If it was true they would have to put it in print right on the bottle. Maybe there is no proof or study  that it does in fact confirm that ammonia weakens the bond of Nickel and silver solder

It is easy to claim and if it is repeated enough everyone believes it so it must be true. But there is no proof that it does. Just because everyone thinks it it true doesn't make it true. And linking to a discussion on this forum doesn't make it true either. How about proof from a reliable source of a study to as to the effects that ammonia has on either Nickel or silver solder. 

I have been using a mixture of 1 part ammonia and 3 parts water to clean my saw blades for 50 years. and I have sent several at a time back to Forrest for Inspection, sharpening and checking for run out before sending them back . And not once has anything ever be stated  about the condition their silver soldered. tips. And after having a tip or two replaced could I tell which ones were old and which ones are new? No

Tom

(12-27-2021, 09:34 AM)tablesawtom Wrote: I am not sure what you mean about no one ever mentioning their silver soldered tips.  It was stated that ammonia will degrade Nickel And that Windex contains ammonia therefore implying that it shouldn't be used. I took it a step farther because easy off oven cleaner also contains ammonia and shouldn't be used to clean the pitch off from saw blades because it destroys the solder bond. No real proof but presented as unrefutably fact. Great marketing.

Personally I don't use easy off oven cleaner because I don't like the strong smell, but there is no proof to the claim that it will do harm to a saw blade if it is used. But it is passed on as fact. Even a half truth is false information.  

 Fact, I never even thought about using Windex on my diamond stone. If I had just spent $100 on a diamond plate and I read that I would be scared to death to use Windex because it would degrade my nickel bond. And most of the people on this forum don't even have a clue as to what nickel is. I did consider the lapping fluid but knowing the problems it brings  ( mainly from experience with finding it dried on the surface grinder magnetic chuck) I decided against buying it. But it is great marketing for lapping fluid. I passed on the information about the hot air ( heat gun) because it dries the plate and helps to blow of any steel particles left on and it can be then put away clean and dry. What any one decides to do with that information is their choice

As far as what you wrote about SILVER solder you are 100 per cent correct. As I knew you would be. But I only know it in the high temperature form. I did not know about silver bearing solder, and I found that piece of information very interesting. And the way you presented it, I have no doubt that you 100 % correct this time also.

(12-27-2021, 12:50 PM)Timberwolf Wrote: ..................
Tom, as you and both know, EXPERIENCE is FIRST HAND knowledge...everything else is pretty much hearsay. Reading or talking about it is one thing, doing it is another! ..IMO, There is NO substitute for first hand experience!!!!

(12-26-2021, 02:53 PM)tablesawtom Wrote: If nickel is used as a substrate then there is no need dry the diamond stone ( plate) because diamonds and nickel do not rust. Therefore the reason for the lapping fluid being needed to keep  the plate from rusting is false information. You are correct about the residual swarf rusting but can be cleaned off when the plate is dry.

I use a 1000 grit water stone, then a 3000 grit water stone, followed with a 8000 grit stone and finally a leather wheel charged with a lapping compound.  I use water on the water stones because I believe the name water stone implies  that that water is to be used as a lubricating medium. I have a 300-1000 grid diamond plate but mostly I use the 300 grit side it to flatten my stones. And I feel I do not want to contaminate my 3000 grit stone with residue from my 1000 grit stone and the 8000 the same way. Nor do I want to contaminate my stones with Krud cleaner, dish washing soap, kerosene, honing fluid, WD40, mineral oil or LA"S cleaner. I use plain old ordinary soft water. Give me a brake if you are going to get technical about distilled water.

Since when doing the final sharpening, one is only dealing with a micro bevel, it doesn't take long, and I find I do my touch up more with stone than diamond plates, I use water only. At least 5 times as much. One can not contaminate a surface if you do not use a decontaminate. 

Personally I use water and hot air on my diamond plater because I like to put it away clean and dry ready for the next use. Can I put in a drop of dish soap? Yes, but why.