+- Woodnet Forums (https://forums.woodnet.net)
+-- Thread: Handcut DT ? (/showthread.php?tid=7246667)
Re: Handcut DT ? - Halfathumb - 03-20-2016
Thanks all. Aram, that video is very useful, anxious to try that. Dave, Although I sold my Leigh about 2 years ago and started cutting by hand the need for DT has been sporadic until recently when I started working on 2 or 3 projects simultaneously. Hopefully with more reps I'll get to where I can do them by eye.
Thanks all. Have a great spring!
Re: Handcut DT ? - Halfathumb - 03-20-2016
Aram said:
I bet there's a big bunch of dovetailers that never put much thought into it one way or another.
Me too!
Re: Handcut DT ? - Pink Floyd - 03-20-2016
Superglide said:
Why do the hand cut purists always leave the scribe line? Looks like a forgotten tool mark.
I don't know why they leave it but I don't like the look, either. On drawers especially, the scribe line should be very, very shallow so that it can be planed off when fitting the drawer. Too deep and it would result in a loose drawer fit if planed away.
Re: Handcut DT ? - Admiral - 03-21-2016
Pink Floyd said:
[blockquote]Superglide said:
Why do the hand cut purists always leave the scribe line? Looks like a forgotten tool mark.
I don't know why they leave it but I don't like the look, either. On drawers especially, the scribe line should be very, very shallow so that it can be planed off when fitting the drawer. Too deep and it would result in a loose drawer fit if planed away.
[/blockquote]
The only theory that makes sense to me is that it clearly demonstrates that the joinery was done by hand, and can be found on antiques. After all, the joint in drawers is hidden. On exterior casework it is planed off generally, except when they appear on the back or are otherwise hidden. Sometimes I leave them, sometimes they are removed.
Re: Handcut DT ? - Bibliophile 13 - 03-21-2016
I use dividers and a small square to space them out, and it works pretty quickly. If I cut dovetails as often as Dave D. (above) does, I'd probably be doing them by eye as well.
FWIW, I also plane out the baseline. I know it's historically-correct to leave it in some places, but I don't like how it looks. So I get rid of it.
One of these days, maybe my way of doing it will be considered "historically correct."
Re: Handcut DT ? - AHill - 03-21-2016
Admiral said:
[blockquote]Pink Floyd said:
[blockquote]Superglide said:
Why do the hand cut purists always leave the scribe line? Looks like a forgotten tool mark.
I don't know why they leave it but I don't like the look, either. On drawers especially, the scribe line should be very, very shallow so that it can be planed off when fitting the drawer. Too deep and it would result in a loose drawer fit if planed away.
[/blockquote]
The only theory that makes sense to me is that it clearly demonstrates that the joinery was done by hand, and can be found on antiques. After all, the joint in drawers is hidden. On exterior casework it is planed off generally, except when they appear on the back or are otherwise hidden. Sometimes I leave them, sometimes they are removed.
[/blockquote]
The scribe line needs to be deep enough that it can be easily seen. In the days before electricity, that meant the line had to be deeper than perhaps we need today in workshops with adequate lighting. Since 95% of furniture in that day was utilitarian, it didn't make sense to plane away the scribe line. That costs money and time. Dovetails then were just the way to join wood without glue. They weren't necessarily for show. You'd be surprised how much "fine" furniture had saw marks past the scribe line on the inside part of furniture, and rough-planed or rough-sawn surfaces on the non-showing sides of furniture. It's just the way it was done.
Re: Handcut DT ? - Rob Young - 03-21-2016
Bibliophile 13 said:
I use dividers and a small square to space them out, and it works pretty quickly. If I cut dovetails as often as Dave D. (above) does, I'd probably be doing them by eye as well.
FWIW, I also plane out the baseline. I know it's historically-correct to leave it in some places, but I don't like how it looks. So I get rid of it.
One of these days, maybe my way of doing it will be considered "historically correct."
Meh. Sometimes the whole line gets planed out. Other times a bit gets left behind. Frankly, I've stopped caring if a little bit is visible.
I generally do the divider thing for layout too. And if possible, gang-cut the tails. But unless everything is perfect, there will always be a little bit of a bobble in the positions and so just a touch of asymmetry. Heck, asymmetry is what makes our faces look "normal". Ever see pictures where they make a whole-face photo by mirroring just the left or right side? Weird.
Re: Handcut DT ? - Paul K. Murphy - 03-21-2016
I don't think hand cutting dovetails makes somebody a purist.
To begin to talk about purists, I suppose one would have to talk about how the gauge line, that little knife line, has to show.
Next...
Some big shot, real purist, would come along and mention how he or she uses the saw on the drawer front to saw past the gauge line, just like So and So, big shot cabinetmaker of old did.
Then...
Some clown would come along, and broach the topic of whether pins or tails should be cut first.
Then, you'd have a hair-pulling fight to watch.
Re: Handcut DT ? - EricU - 03-21-2016
I don't consider myself a purist, hand cutting dovetails just seems to have a lot of advantages. Don't need a jig, for one thing. I had a jig because of a large purchase of tools, and when I sold it was one of my happier days in tool ownership.
I have always done them by eye, maybe someday I'll work up the discipline to mark them out carefully. Keep looking in the swap and sell for a decent divider, haven't bit on one yet. I often mark the tails on half of one board, flip it and use that to mark half of the other board, then flip again to mark out the remaining halves of both boards. That way they are symmetric
Re: Handcut DT ? - Peter Tremblay - 03-23-2016
Dave Diaman said:
My dovetails are close to symmetrical. I cut mine entirely by eye though meaning all I do is strike a base line and start cutting. Mine are fairly consistent but obviously there will be some small variation in angle and spacing which is the way it should be in a reproduction piece.
Would it be appropriate for me to come into this thread to point out that you cut them wrong... by that I mean pins first.
To all the rest of the woodworkers out there please take caution as Dave may have nice furniture but he is not to be listened to when it comes to handcut dovetails.
Dave cuts them backwards!
You've been warned
Ps. Dave and I have been joking about this for years... just an inside joke.