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+-- Thread: Bench Dog hand planes? (/showthread.php?tid=7324273)
RE: Bench Dog hand planes? - JimReed@Tallahassee - 10-28-2016
Some random thoughts...
It is pretty expensive, I think. But quality could make it worthwhile. The 1/8" thick blade is a step in the right direction. I like the brass lever cap. Wonder how the machining is? Wonder how much backlash it has?
When I worked at Rockler, my boss encouraged us to demonstrate tools and even take them off the shelf and use them. I sold lots of calipers and trammels because I showed their usefulness. I'll bet the store would let you try one to see how it works and feels.
Even so, it is expensive. Bailey #4s in the wild are not that hard to find but the issue is the thin 1/16" blade. Works OK in softer woods when you make thin shavings. But Stanley blades in smaller planes can be chatter city in tough maple or cherry.
My guess is that this plane works about as well as the $14.99 #33 from HF. Once I rocked mine out with my custom blades, it worked great as a smoother AND as a scrub.
RE: Bench Dog hand planes? - Mike Brady - 10-28-2016
I don't agree that Lie-Nielsen's version of Stanley is akin to the Wood River or Bull Dog copies of L-N. There were dozens of Stanley copies that were contemporary with the Stanley/Bailey planes. Lie-Nielsen made a quantum leap ahead of the rest of the field by upgrading materials and workmanship / materials. Are they innovative like the Lee Valley planes?...No, that is not L-N's thing. Improvement is. The chain woodworking stores wanted L-N's appeal, but at a price, and at margins that were far better. That's fine if you are a consumer, but guess what? Consumers have forgotten where their income originates...and it's probably not China. So that leaves a few hundred American workers as manufacturers of hand tools. How many did Stanley employ in the day?
If you like Lie-Nielsen, or Lee Valley, or any of the boutique makers' products, buy those so you can continue to have a choice.
RE: Bench Dog hand planes? - RB61 - 10-28-2016
"If you like Lie-Nielsen, or Lee Valley, or any of the boutique makers' products, buy those so you can continue to have a choice."
This is my philosophy also. All of us will eventually have to get used to living in a world marketplace, but we need to support the makers of tools that we use and value.
-for some reason the Quote function didn't work for me.
PM Find
RE: Bench Dog hand planes? - meackerman - 10-28-2016
(10-28-2016, 03:40 PM)RB61 Wrote: -for some reason the Quote function didn't work for me.quote button, then reply button.
PM Find
RE: Bench Dog hand planes? - KlausK. - 10-28-2016
The casting of the Bench Dog and of the Rider seem to come from the same stable. Can't spot a difference on the casting itself. Different shaped chipbreakers, lever caps, handles etc. don't count since the Chinese manufacturers make these parts according to the wishes of the retailer. Just the casting can't be got different. The Rider plane is a Bailey patterned plane so I'd guess that the Bench Dog is a Bailey type as well.
The planes that are coming from Quiangsheng (Woodriver, Juuma, Quangsheng, Dictum etc) are Bedrock planes.
Klaus
RE: Bench Dog hand planes? - AHill - 10-31-2016
(10-28-2016, 02:52 PM)Mike Brady Wrote: I don't agree that Lie-Nielsen's version of Stanley is akin to the Wood River or Bull Dog copies of L-N. There were dozens of Stanley copies that were contemporary with the Stanley/Bailey planes. Lie-Nielsen made a quantum leap ahead of the rest of the field by upgrading materials and workmanship / materials. Are they innovative like the Lee Valley planes?...No, that is not L-N's thing. Improvement is. The chain woodworking stores wanted L-N's appeal, but at a price, and at margins that were far better. That's fine if you are a consumer, but guess what? Consumers have forgotten where their income originates...and it's probably not China. So that leaves a few hundred American workers as manufacturers of hand tools. How many did Stanley employ in the day?
If you like Lie-Nielsen, or Lee Valley, or any of the boutique makers' products, buy those so you can continue to have a choice.
Note that I said LN way better in quality. Higher quality materials. Better tolerances in machining. Heavier casting. Not sure I'd rate them a quantum leap above the pre-WWII Stanley's, but they are better. Not knocking LN. I have over 20 of them. I also have a lot of vintage Stanley's, and a few LV planes. I don't own a single WoodRiver plane. The WoodRiver planes are clones of the LN planes, minus some changes in the cap irons. Same shape, same design. The Bench Dog planes have a different shape, but still retain the same basic design as the LN planes.
RE: Bench Dog hand planes? - mvflaim - 10-31-2016
I believe these Bench Dog, Woodriver planes are just entry level planes for woodworkers who don't know anything about planing. They also may feel Lie-Nielsen and Veritas are a bit too expensive and are intimidated by tuning up an old Stanley plane. I read in Woodworker's Journal last month that only 8% of woodworkers use hand planes so, there is plenty of growth in the industry. By offering these lower end planes, it gives Rockler and Woodcraft a chance to sell something "new" to their customers.
I don't think Lie-Nielsen or Veritas have anything to worry about. If anything, it's an opportunity to gain new customers in the future once these woodworkers get used to using hand planes.
RE: Bench Dog hand planes? - AHill - 10-31-2016
(10-31-2016, 07:30 PM)mvflaim Wrote: I believe these Bench Dog, Woodriver planes are just entry level planes for woodworkers who don't know anything about planing.Can't speak for Bench Dog, but the WR planes are not that far behind Veritas or LN planes in quality. Entry level planes to me are Groz, Anant, and Harbor Freight. (And those planes would make one swear to never use hand tools again!) Veritas and LN planes are quite a bit better than WR in quality.
RE: Bench Dog hand planes? - DaveinOhio - 11-01-2016
(10-31-2016, 07:44 PM)AHill Wrote: Can't speak for Bench Dog, but the WR planes are not that far behind Veritas or LN planes in quality. Entry level planes to me are Groz, Anant, and Harbor Freight. (And those planes would make one swear to never use hand tools again!) Veritas and LN planes are quite a bit better than WR in quality.
Now that comment left me a bit confused about your thoughts on the quality of the WR planes. The first and last sentences seem to contradict each other.
Dave
RE: Bench Dog hand planes? - John Clifford - 11-01-2016
I was thinking the same thing.
John