+- Woodnet Forums (https://forums.woodnet.net)
+-- Thread: Woodgears.ca power feeder (/showthread.php?tid=7333274)
RE: Woodgears.ca power feeder - Phil Thien - 09-17-2017
Real kickback only occurs if the wood lifts.
This holds the wood down with more force than any operator.
We may as well throw away our feather boards, the fingers may snap.
Gimme a break.
RE: Woodgears.ca power feeder - JGrout - 09-17-2017
(09-17-2017, 11:20 PM)Phil Thien Wrote: Real kickback only occurs if the wood lifts. incorrect twisting will accomplish the same thing
This holds the wood down with more force than any operator. incorrect again proper use of a holddown stick is 10 times more effective the only place it matters anyway is at the end of the cut/ with that contraption you drop the end of the board and it WILL lift hmmm, guess that answered that twice
We may as well throw away our feather boards, the fingers may snap.
Gimme a break.
Nope no break for you, you are all in now and you got nothing
keep digging
RE: Woodgears.ca power feeder - Tony Z - 09-18-2017
True story: an OSHA consultation service was doing an adit at my plant better than a dozen years ago. Through the analysis the two doing kept insisting the most dangerous scenario is thinking you are safe from danger when in fact you are not. Hearing protection? Remove the sound of the source, instead of hearing protection.
Why even today are splitters and kickback pawls not used? Inconvenient? Maybe, but the manufacturers could take time to do them better. For example a few years ago, I bought a cabinet saw tha came with a split, blade guard and kickback pawls. The safety stuff looked nice, but was ill fitting and the splitter (or mounting plate) so off, the lumber could not be ripped (yes, the fnce was properly adjusted). It took maybe two to three hours of one of my machinist's time to surface grind and otherwise refine the splitter, with net effect it does its job correctly. The blade guard and pawls? So poorly designed, that I don't believe they can be reworked.
So....my point? Safety is first awareness of where you are and what you doing at any time. Second, is recognizing you are responsible and not the tool. The jerry-rigged battery powered drill, properly adjusted could be safer than an ill adjusted power feeder. I have a feeder, but it is on my shaper and too large to be considered anywhere near mobile. My table saw? Earlier in this thread was the first I heard the words "Board Buddies" in years. I was intriqued by them many years ago and may revisit them again. The same with an after market guard and dust collection system.
But, after getting used to how to set up my feeder on my shaper, I may consider the Delta or Grizzly small feeder for my table saw. This isn't a diss on the drill powered feeder, but more support for recognizing the need for safety on the tablesaw, and yes, Through my four decades plus f woodworking, I have had kickbacks.
RE: Woodgears.ca power feeder - Phil Thien - 09-18-2017
(09-17-2017, 11:39 PM)JGrout Wrote: Nope no break for you, you are all in now and you got nothing
keep digging
You're kidding, right?
This thread is turning into another JGrout appeal to authority spectacular.
There is a video showing an operator running a saw and router table for I'd imagine a couple of hours, with a PROTOTYPE feeder, and his hands stay away from the cutting tool throughout.
I'd encourage anyone still reading this to watch the video again, and note just how far he stays away from the blade and router bits.
And you want/us to ignore what he comes up with, and instead use my/our hands and push sticks?
Keep it up, Joe.
This thread is yet another where you can't admit you're wrong.
You want us to believe YOU, and distrust our lying eyes.
Ain't gonna happen.
Oh and significant kickback requires a ride across the top of the blade, twist isn't going to give you the velocity necessary.
RE: Woodgears.ca power feeder - jteneyck - 09-18-2017
(09-18-2017, 07:01 AM)Phil Thien Wrote: Oh and significant kickback requires a ride across the top of the blade, twist isn't going to give you the velocity necessary.
Absolutely not true. I've had a couple of violent kickbacks just from the wood bowing/twisting enough for the back of the blade to catch it. There is a dent in my boiler about 12 ft behind my saw where one piece was launched. The top guard was still at the same height as before, so the piece couldn't have lifted up and gone over the top of the blade. How did the kickback happen with anti kickback pawls in place? There weren't any. And I still need some.
==========================
I just can't understand why people won't use a splitter or riving knife and guard. If your factory made unit is junk, modify or replace it. Every few weeks someone posts about a near miss or worse. Most would have been prevented had those devices been used. A proper power feeder would be nice, but it can't be used in many situations. A splitter and guard can be used for nearly any through cut.
John
RE: Woodgears.ca power feeder - JGrout - 09-18-2017
(09-18-2017, 07:01 AM)Phil Thien Wrote: You're kidding, right?
This thread is turning into another JGrout appeal to authority spectacular.
There is a video showing an operator running a saw and router table for I'd imagine a couple of hours, with a PROTOTYPE feeder, and his hands stay away from the cutting tool throughout.
I'd encourage anyone still reading this to watch the video again, and note just how far he stays away from the blade and router bits.
And you want/us to ignore what he comes up with, and instead use my/our hands and push sticks?
Keep it up, Joe.
This thread is yet another where you can't admit you're wrong.
You want us to believe YOU, and distrust our lying eyes.
Ain't gonna happen.
Oh and significant kickback requires a ride across the top of the blade, twist isn't going to give you the velocity necessary.
Well if by some outside chance I was wrong I would admit it
OTOH the only one here digging the hole based on stubborn disbelief is you
The unit in any form even improved will not meet the standard required to become a safe and useful solution.
Rube Goldberg himself would run and hide from that train wreck.
I could prove how dangerous it really is and do so for about the same amount of effort that was put into that contraption.
But I am not going to it is not worth the effort, it is so bad.
You have come up with a few doozies in your time but supporting a dangerous and inadequately designed POS someone came up with that has zero merit other than injuring someone based on the idea that it is somehow a fine idea is why I am not giving one single inch on this
To everyone else: It is dangerous, on top of being badly designed it will do everything I suggested earlier and likely some I did not do not use it and if you do well ........... you get what you have coming to you
RE: Woodgears.ca power feeder - Phil Thien - 09-18-2017
(09-18-2017, 09:28 AM)jteneyck Wrote: Absolutely not true. I've had a couple of violent kickbacks just from the wood bowing/twisting enough for the back of the blade to catch it. There is a dent in my boiler about 12 ft behind my saw where one piece was launched. The top guard was still at the same height as before, so the piece couldn't have lifted up and gone over the top of the blade. How did the kickback happen with anti kickback pawls in place? There weren't any. And I still need some.
==========================
I just can't understand why people won't use a splitter or riving knife and guard. If your factory made unit is junk, modify or replace it. Every few weeks someone posts about a near miss or worse. Most would have been prevented had those devices been used. A proper power feeder would be nice, but it can't be used in many situations. A splitter and guard can be used for nearly any through cut.
John
Maybe you had your blade adjusted too low. If the wood can't contact the teeth at the top of the blade, the blade cannot impart substantial forward energy to the stock.
And this isn't a discussion about splitters or pawls or guards, anyhow. This is about a device that at the very least, provides yet another point of hold-down on the stock.
I've got no problem with someone saying "I sure wish he'd use a guard, splitter, and pawls while demonstrating his new feeding device," but discouraging the use of his device because he doesn't use those other devices is wrong-minded.
That is because the feeder STILL improves safety during use (even without all the other safety devices), and that is clear from just watching the video where we can observe his positon relative to the machines and see where he places his hands.
You guys are arguing against common sense here.
RE: Woodgears.ca power feeder - Phil Thien - 09-18-2017
(09-18-2017, 10:13 AM)JGrout Wrote: Well if by some outside chance I was wrong I would admit it
OTOH the only one here digging the hole based on stubborn disbelief is you
The unit in any form even improved will not meet the standard required to become a safe and useful solution.
Rube Goldberg himself would run and hide from that train wreck.
I could prove how dangerous it really is and do so for about the same amount of effort that was put into that contraption.
But I am not going to it is not worth the effort, it is so bad.
You have come up with a few doozies in your time but supporting a dangerous and inadequately designed POS someone came up with that has zero merit other than injuring someone based on the idea that it is somehow a fine idea is why I am not giving one single inch on this
To everyone else: It is dangerous, on top of being badly designed it will do everything I suggested earlier and likely some I did not do not use it and if you do well ........... you get what you have coming to you
This device (a prototype so far) helps to keep the operator's hands, and the operator themselves, out of the danger zones.
Anyone watching the video can clearly see that.
RE: Woodgears.ca power feeder - JGrout - 09-18-2017
(09-18-2017, 10:37 AM)Phil Thien Wrote: This device (a prototype so far) helps to keep the operator's hands, and the operator themselves, out of the danger zones.
Anyone watching the video can clearly see that.
It does not do anything to protect one's hands
well unless you have stones enough to turn loose of the stock and watch it come flying back out of the machine.
With inadequate down pressure, and zero kickback protection that is just a semi controlled kickback device as in guaranteed to throw something right back at you Additionally, there is not even any guard over the drive so when it torques up enough ( if it is even possible ) to twist that drive axle it is most likely going to be throwing steel shrapnel around the shop as well.
It is only a prototype of a good way to get results you never imagined.
RE: Woodgears.ca power feeder - Phil Thien - 09-18-2017
(09-18-2017, 11:16 AM)JGrout Wrote: It does not do anything to protect one's hands
well unless you have stones enough to turn loose of the stock and watch it come flying back out of the machine.
With inadequate down pressure, and zero kickback protection that is just a semi controlled kickback device as in guaranteed to throw something right back at you Additionally, there is not even any guard over the drive so when it torques up enough ( if it is even possible ) to twist that drive axle it is most likely going to be throwing steel shrapnel around the shop as well.
It is only a prototype of a good way to get results you never imagined.
"Who you gonna believe, your lying eyes or me, JGrout?"
People, watch the video, don't let him bomb yet another thread with his endless non sequiturs.
Watch the video and observe the position of the operator and his hands. Is the device perfect? Well, no, nothing is. But it appears to work darn well for a prototype.
Joe, you own the record for thread destructions here, you needn't add to your totals, nobody will ever catch up to you.