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welders in the house? - anwalt - 02-20-2020
I cut a few miters for a neighbor. No charge. Happy to do it.
few weeks later, he delivered his father's Forney brand welder.
I have a broken Kreg clamp that I would like to repair. Welding store recommended Hobart 7018 as all around rod for an AC buzz box.
I have limited welding experience, but some. I cannot get this welder & rod combination to run a bead. Practicing with an angle iron, the rod will just stick to the iron. When it strikes an arc the rod will not run with the arc, either the arc goes out, or the rod sticks. Is my hand really that bad?
Rod is 3/32, Hobart web site says it runs best at 90amp which is where I am at. However, with this welder, I am not certain the scale is accurate.
All suggestions welcome, except 'get a Lincoln 200 pipeliner', or 'get a Miller . . . . ' or a Hobart. I have to work with what I have, if it will work.
thx,
tom
RE: welders in the house? - Wild Turkey - 02-20-2020
IIRC 7018 is a "Powder filled rod" and you need 6011 or 6013 to make your root passes. Have you got a clean surface?
Crank it up a step at a time until it get hot enough you can weld.
I assume your rods are fresh?
But it's been years since I did any serious stick welding -- MIG is my preference.
RE: welders in the house? - TDKPE - 02-20-2020
(02-20-2020, 08:01 PM)anwalt Wrote: Welding store recommended Hobart 7018 as all around rod for an AC buzz box.
Are they 7018AC? You’re not going to get very good results with 7018 without a DC unit unless it’s made for AC.
And that’s low hydrogen structural welding rod (70 ksi minimum yield strength), used in building skyscrapers and bridges, for both stick welding and wire feed. You’ll probably have an easier time with 6011 or 6013. Don’t trust the current markings, either; in structural work, the welding machines have to be calibrated because they, well, aren’t necessarily accurate.
Try higher current, too, if the rod is sticking and you can’t maintain an arc. Do a lot of practicing on scrap, and use clean metal. Welding crappy metal will give you crappy results, all other things being equal.
Low hydrogen rods, by the way, or normally stored in a rod oven to prevent absorption of moisture, which ruins the ability of the rod to make a clean weld. Though that’s probably not a problem for a hobbiest making a simple repair. But I’m surprised the dude suggested low hydrogen rods for a beginner.
RE: welders in the house? - pprobus - 02-21-2020
(02-20-2020, 08:45 PM)TDKPE Wrote: Are they 7018AC? You’re not going to get very good results with 7018 without a DC unit unless it’s made for AC.
And that’s low hydrogen structural welding rod (70 ksi minimum yield strength), used in building skyscrapers and bridges, for both stick welding and wire feed. You’ll probably have an easier time with 6011 or 6013. Don’t trust the current markings, either; in structural work, the welding machines have to be calibrated because they, well, aren’t necessarily accurate.
Try higher current, too, if the rod is sticking and you can’t maintain an arc. Do a lot of practicing on scrap, and use clean metal. Welding crappy metal will give you crappy results, all other things being equal.
Low hydrogen rods, by the way, or normally stored in a rod oven to prevent absorption of moisture, which ruins the ability of the rod to make a clean weld. Though that’s probably not a problem for a hobbiest making a simple repair. But I’m surprised the dude suggested low hydrogen rods for a beginner.
What TDKPE said, with the exception of recommending the rods for beginners. When I took a welding course, the instructor wanted us to experience the rods that were considered hardest to control, not to mention that the class was geared toward people who would go on to welding careers and would need to weld with 6010 and 7018 to meet structural (and perhaps ASME) codes.
That being said, TDKPE is right, start out with 6011, it is very easy to get a bead with that rod. You may have to play with the amps to get the sweet spot. Also, get a good book, I recommend Welding Fundamentals. It doesn't have to be the latest version of the book (check the 'Bay, sometimes you can get a good deal). Just avoid the cheap, crappy, blue welding book that just about every auto parts, BORG's, etc. carry. I bought that book and it was junk. WF was the textbook we used in the class I took and for each process it gives you charts for amps/volt/gas flow rates, to get you in the ball park, as well as very good photos and drawings. Yes, I am sure you can learn a LOT from watching YouTube videos on how to actually run beads, but the textbook gives you the charts and other references you will need when you haven't welded in a while and wonder what setting you need for what rod, etc. Running beads is like riding a bike, once you learn how to do so consistently, you won't need to watch Youtube, just get the settings right or close.
Going back to choice of rod, TDKPE is right again, 7018 needs to be stored in a rod oven and can only be out in open air for a limited time (I think 2 hours max for rods that are not moisture resistant). My understanding is that if they are not stored properly, that can also affect how well they weld, not just that the flux picks up moisture and causes porosity. Even moisture resistant lo-hy rods are not intended to be stored outside of an oven, the moisture resistance only adds to how long they can be outside of proper storage. For these reasons, I may be saying something controversial for some, but I believe low hydrogen rods are overkill for hobby weldors. For hobby use, 7014 is equivalent to 7018 in most respects, but is not a lo-hy rod. Its not quite as readily available as 7018, but I have run beads with both properly stored 7018 and 7014 and I find, from a hobby weldor perspective, they weld about the same.
So far noone has touched on the machine (its taken some time for me to write this so others may have responded before this gets posted). I assume it was used. Are you sure it is working properly? Perhaps that is the reason your neighbor gave it away? Not knowingly, perhaps your neighbor had issues as well and did not realize it may be the welder.
Oh, I see you're going off of Hobart's site for amp recommendations. They are only starting points. You need to go up (very likely in your case) or down as needed. I know we ran 1/8" rods in class and needed to run 7018 at around 125 - 130 amps but that was using industrial class Miller tig-stick welders. 90 amps should run 6011, fine, though. A good website for welding is weldingweb.com. They were offline for a couple of weeks recently, but they have people there who are pro's who are willing to provide help to beginner hobby weldors.
Good luck and don't give up. It's another addiction.
RE: welders in the house? - Cooler - 02-21-2020
You might do better at a welding-specific website. I am also just beginning. I found solid information at https://www.weldingweb.com/forum
RE: welders in the house? - anwalt - 02-21-2020
(02-20-2020, 08:45 PM)TDKPE Wrote: Are they 7018AC? You’re not going to get very good results with 7018 without a DC unit unless it’s made for AC.
And that’s low hydrogen structural welding rod (70 ksi minimum yield strength), used in building skyscrapers and bridges, for both stick welding and wire feed. You’ll probably have an easier time with 6011 or 6013. Don’t trust the current markings, either; in structural work, the welding machines have to be calibrated because they, well, aren’t necessarily accurate.
Try higher current, too, if the rod is sticking and you can’t maintain an arc. Do a lot of practicing on scrap, and use clean metal. Welding crappy metal will give you crappy results, all other things being equal.
Low hydrogen rods, by the way, or normally stored in a rod oven to prevent absorption of moisture, which ruins the ability of the rod to make a clean weld. Though that’s probably not a problem for a hobbiest making a simple repair. But I’m surprised the dude suggested low hydrogen rods for a beginner.
Tom
as always, your advice is 'right on'. Traded an unopened box of 1/8 7018 for a box of 3/32 6011 rod. worked well. Much smoother. I will never be a welder, but it helps to be able to glue steel together.
Thanks to the other commenters also.
RE: welders in the house? - TDKPE - 02-21-2020
(02-21-2020, 02:35 PM)anwalt Wrote: Traded an unopened box of 1/8 7018 for a box of 3/32 6011 rod. worked well. Much smoother. I will never be a welder, but it helps to be able to glue steel together.
That's my preferred rod for small work. Taught my two boys to make their own workout equipment using that rod, 3/32 dia. in fact. Good for steel tube (HSS) and small plate. I've been dragging my Union Carbide (Linde) 230A buzz box around since I bought it new, in high school. In the 19xx's.
Nice thing about it is that is has a crank on top, so it has infinitely variable output.
RE: welders in the house? - Pirate - 03-19-2020
Word of warning!
20 years ago I was welding some angle iron on a plastic milk crate in the yard.
I was sitting another crate
when the rod would stick, a quick jerk would free it.
One time it didn't, so I jerked the rod harder.
Next thing, I was getting the sh** shocked out of me!
When I got up off the ground, I had a feeling all my teeth were going to fall out!
I had a burn on my right shirt sleeve, and a burn 1.5" above my right eye!
Aparently, on the 2nd jerk to unstick rod, the rod came off at the last moment and momentem, made me fall back off the crate, and my mask came off, as the rod came back and made contact with my face. 1.5" FROM MY EYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
True story. I was very, very lucky.
RE: welders in the house? - Stwood_ - 03-19-2020
I'm a stick welder.
As above the others suggested, I also suggest 6011.
Not as pretty a bead as 7018, but to me is a better all around rod.
I use 1/8 and 3/32 normally.
I still have my Lincoln that I bought in 72-73.
RE: welders in the house? - daddo - 03-19-2020
(03-19-2020, 11:08 AM)Pirate Wrote: Word of warning!
20 years ago I was welding some angle iron on a plastic milk crate in the yard.
I was sitting another crate
when the rod would stick, a quick jerk would free it.
One time it didn't, so I jerked the rod harder.
Next thing, I was getting the sh** shocked out of me!
When I got up off the ground, I had a feeling all my teeth were going to fall out!
I had a burn on my right shirt sleeve, and a burn 1.5" above my right eye!
Aparently, on the 2nd jerk to unstick rod, the rod came off at the last moment and momentem, made me fall back off the crate, and my mask came off, as the rod came back and made contact with my face. 1.5" FROM MY EYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
True story. I was very, very lucky.
I believe that's how they kick started Frankenstein. I mean; Fraunkunsteen.