Paul Sellers sharpening system, which diamond stones?

[Ricky]

Okay, update. Ive been playing with the Seller method and now getting fairly consistent results.   Because its fairly quick Ive added another step or two.  After the 3 diamond plates I'm also giving the irons a few swipes on the round 3K (thanks Jack!).
I couldn't find my strop so instead spending another 30 seconds or so on my shapton 12K ceramic.  That includes doing the Dave Charlesworth (RIP)
ruler trick.  Produces a very sharp edge, tested on newspaper, forearm hair and flattening a bench top with these 3 planes. (using winding sticks,
another learning curve involved.)

They all have thick irons which I assume is making the learning curve easier.   The type 13 number 5 jack has a hock iron/chipbreaker.
So far I'm liking it.   I'm trying to getting away from waterstones, but this ceramic very hard, takes a while to go out of flat and just a spritz of
water.

[Ricky]

I feel the same way about Steph Curry, when I watch him it is obvious he's just a beginner level basketball player, going through the motions.

[AHill]

I think that’s what he means and he’s right. When you are cutting, you are cutting. But often, the second or third strike of the chisel mallet, really turns your chisel into a wedge. And the wedge forces get reacted at the tip of your chisel and perpendicular to the centerline between the chisels back and bevel. This why you can’t hold a chisel perfectly vertically, mallet it, and expect a vertical cut to result.

On planes, the force exerted by the shavings is pretty minimal, but there is also a wedging force doing the exact same thing. This is what dulls blades.

The shape of the edge just past the tip can effect the amount of wedging.  Higher angles are more wedgey, lower angles less so, but they are also less capable of reacted the stress still occurring. So all sharpening is a trade off of cutting angle and tool strength.

Sorry if I just mansplained everybody

I misinterpreted what he wrote.  I thought he was referring to Sellers' bevel, which is convex.  If he's referring to a bevel generated with a grinder, it it indeed concave.  I'm not a fan of using a grinder to establish a bevel.  I think convex bevels are weaker than a flat bevel.  I know there are others that disagree and prefer a newly established bevel using a grinder, because it then allows you to register your chisel on the sharpening stone more easily, as well as taking off less metal when sharpening compared to a fully flat bevel.

[phreddy]

I've used waterstones for years.  I don't mind them for my kitchen knives over the sink.  I want to try something different for
sharpening my WW tools in basement shop.  I think he (Paul Sellers) uses EZE lap, anyone here using this or other brands, your input appreciated.
I'm googling and notice Best Sharpening Stones website has 8 x 3 Ultra Sharp brand 3 Stone Kit for 117 bucks. Seems a good price but don't
know anything about the brand.   I don't mind paying more for better brand/quality control.  THX

I’m a little late to the party and I didn’t read the whole thread; you may have already addressed the issue, but to answer your question about Ultra Sharp:

I have two Ultra Sharp stones. 1200 and 2200 grits. I find the quality to be excellent. They work crazy fast. I still finish with 4000 and 8000 Shapton waterstones because I like a higher polish, but that work also goes quickly after the diamond stones.  I can recommend the Ultra Sharp stones without reservation.

My shop is (also) in the basement and has no water, which is why I want to transition entirely to diamond stones. I make too much mess in the kitchen with my waterstones and I hate to schlep my tools up and down the stairs. I’m looking for finer grit diamond stones, but Ultra Sharp only goes up to 3000. DMT makes 4000 and 8000, but I haven’t pulled the trigger—yet. Too many lukewarm reviews.

[Ricky]

I’m a little late to the party and I didn’t read the whole thread; you may have already addressed the issue, but to answer your question about Ultra Sharp:

I have two Ultra Sharp stones. 1200 and 2200 grits. I find the quality to be excellent. They work crazy fast. I still finish with 4000 and 8000 Shapton waterstones because I like a higher polish, but that work also goes quickly after the diamond stones.  I can recommend the Ultra Sharp stones without reservation.

My shop is (also) in the basement and has no water, which is why I want to transition entirely to diamond stones. I make too much mess in the kitchen with my waterstones and I hate to schlep my tools up and down the stairs. I’m looking for finer grit diamond stones, but Ultra Sharp only goes up to 3000. DMT makes 4000 and 8000, but I haven’t pulled the trigger—yet. Too many lukewarm reviews.

Thank you for your input. I did pull the trigger and bought the 3 diamond plate ultra sharp set for 116 bucks .  That was due to very good reviews and also because they are priced for much cheaper than the other better known brands.   Been very happy with them.
There are bad reviews on using ultra fine grit diamond stones (over 3K).  Let us know if you have luck with them. 

[Timberwolf]

Thank you for your input. I did pull the trigger and bought the 3 diamond plate ultra sharp set for 116 bucks .  That was due to very good reviews and for now they are seller for much cheaper than the other better know brands.   Been very happy with them.
There are bad reviews on using ultra fine grit diamond stones (3K up).  Let us know if you have luck with them. 

........................
Diamond powder mixed with a tiny amount of petroleum jelly on flat plate glass  or tile, takes sharpening to a new level...beyond ceramic...Stumpy may have never thought about micron diamond powder or paste but I have used it for years in a former hobby {Lapidary} to polish semi-precious stones...It's fast and it's cheap when you consider how long it lasts...Nothing cuts like a diamond. Get it from Amazon...diamond lapping paste or powder.

Here's a video that explains one way to do it..I prefer glass as my substrate but wood or leather works well also.. the diamond will "bed down" in those materials and wont in glass, so the cutting action lasts longer.. The diamond still cuts as it breaks down even finer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF6BwxBN6KI

[Ricky]

Here's a video that explains one way to do it..I prefer glass as my substrate but wood or leather works well also.. the diamond will "bed down" in those materials and wont in glass, so  the cutting action lasts longer.. The diamond still cuts as it breaks down even finer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF6BwxBN6KI

Thanks Jack.  I've seen that video.  Would feel kind of weird stropping a plane blade on glass.  Interesting.  Was reading a David Charlseworth book a couple weeks ago.  He claimed he got the ultimate finishes by lapping on industrial diamond grits on home made, oil-soaked, MDF laps. He said he was taught this by American woodworker Mike Stein.  David said he had no real need for this until he tried sharpening Karl Holtey's S53 powder metallurgy plane blade. His final grit was 1/2 micron.  I saw a picture of the mirror polish it produced.  

[phreddy]

Thank you for your input. I did pull the trigger and bought the 3 diamond plate ultra sharp set for 116 bucks .  That was due to very good reviews and also because they are priced for much cheaper than the other better known brands.   Been very happy with them.
There are bad reviews on using ultra fine grit diamond stones (over 3K).  Let us know if you have luck with them. 



Thanks for that.  Finger off trigger.

[Timberwolf]

Thanks Jack.  I've seen that video.  Would feel kind of weird stropping a plane blade on glass.  Interesting.  Was reading a David Charlseworth book a couple weeks ago.  He claimed he got the ultimate finishes by lapping on industrial diamond grits on home made, oil-soaked, MDF laps. He said he was taught this by American woodworker Mike Stein.  David said he had no real need for this until he tried sharpening Karl Holtey's S53 powder metallurgy plane blade. His final grit was 1/2 micron.  I saw a picture of the mirror polish it produced.  

................
Would feel kind of weird stropping a plane blade on glass.

It kinda does, Ricky...But you definitely know it is cutting the steel. MDF is good, however you can feel it bedding down into the softer substrate quickly.....I usually use the glass plate that came with my WorkSharp but find that if you use much diamond paste, it can "sling off", because of centrifugal force..A speed control would be very useful on that machine. I will point out one thing about buying cheap paste, the amount of diamond powder the mfg puts into it can vary..The best would be diamond paste made for industrial use...the concentration is much denser..

[CStan]

This isn't stropping in the traditional sense. You've just manufactured your own fine(est) honing stone in your line up.

If you're using glass, you might as well move up to the finest abrasives made - ones for polishing mission-critical optical components (spy satellites, microscopes, etc.). Your glass will looks stupendous and so will your plane irons and chisels. It's actually made in a dizzying array of grits, and makes the stuff sold through woodworking and razor suppliers look like Ned and the First Reader.