Kitchen Build Thread

[mound]

SPAMMER DISPATCHED

I hadn't even seen that reply from that user. How do you know it was spam?

[mound]

Well, the COVID bug bit me, was like a nasty cold, no fever but didn't do much other than sit around for a week.

Now back to regular programming.

Fun with dados!  Got all the dado's cut in carcass parts as well as the toe-kick cutout. 

   

   

   

   

Also edge banding. Yes, I "cheated" and used the iron on prefinished maple veneer strips..  I think they look great. These are all behind drawer fronts, so shouldn't see much abuse like they would if fully exposed in an upper cabinet where dishes and such are constantly being moved in and out of.  I used an entire 250' roll of the stuff with only about 20" to spare. 

   

You might notice that little ~3/4"x1/4" notch in the toe-kick area of each of those base cabinet side parts.  That will meet with a similar dado in the bottom shelf of each, and will receive an aluminum channel with diffuser to hold LED strips for toe-kick lighting (tunable and dimmable) along the various counters and island.  Yah such channels could be surface mounted later, but might as well cut them in now and allow for the recessed/low profile LED channel. 

   

   

The width is just shy of 3/4", I really dialed in the width of the dados so the aluminum channel fits very well with just a friction fit. 

I don't really have room to start assembling all the boxes at this point so I'm getting close to the point where there's not much more I can do in the shop until I start actually installing the kitchen. But unfortunately I'm still waiting for the contractors to do the wall removal and beam.. When I booked them in November they told me to plan for "March/April timeframe" so hopefully by end of this month..  At that point, I figure this plan of attack:

1. Wall removal/beam installed
2. Run any new electrical that may require cutting holes in existing drywall
3. Have my drywall guy come close everything up and make it paint ready
4. Have my hardwood floor guy come in and weave new flooring into the now expanded space (basically cutting out a corner creating 60 more square feet)
5. Install all the base cabinets and island carcasses in their final home. 
6. Have the countertop fabricator come measure. 
7. Finish making drawers and doors. (Parts are all cut slightly oversized but otherwise ready)

I'm assuming it makes most sense to let the drywall guy make his mess before touching the floors, and then let the flooring guy make his mess with a wide-open floor space rather than having to work around the cabinets and island. 

Hopefully before this thread is 1yr old, this project will be done, but I suspect it's going to drag.

[jteneyck]

Glad you recovered well from Covid.  

More really good work.  How has it been working with the prefinished plywood?  Any scratching issues?  

John

[mound]

Glad you recovered well from Covid.  

More really good work.  How has it been working with the prefinished plywood?  Any scratching issues?  

John

Thanks! No scratching issues so far but I've tried to be careful with it. The only "weird" thing about working with it has been how slippery it is, both when stacked and when running it over the table saw.

[mound]

Well the contractors who in December told me "we'll be in and out in 4-5 days max and be done in March" (for the demo and structural changes) have finally left the building - in and out in 7 weeks and done late June..  sounds like they hit the mark! pathetic, but it is what it is I suppose.

3 walls removed, two were load bearing requiring two beams - one made up of 4 LVL's 20'x18" and a second beam made up of 2 LVL's 12'x9.25".

The original kitchen space had 3 layers of drywall on the ceiling and the original adjoining dining room space had 2 layers of drywall and a heavy texture.. I want one flat smooth plane across the whole space now that it's all opened up and effectively one room, and simply adding a layer of drywall to the dining room seemed like it'd still be a PITA to blend things since they still weren't in the same plane, so I made the executive decision to tear out all the drywall from both ceilings, bringing it all back to the joists.

Good choice I think.. Took me about 5 hours working alone to tear it all down and clean it all up.   Some plumbing vents and HVAC needs to be re-routed, this will help, also facilitate electrical, and make the drywallers' job much easier.

Got some strapping installed and can visually see there's a bit of wonkiness in terms of the joists all being nice and flat/even. So I tacked all the strapping in place with just one brad nail at each intersection. That way I could get it all up and then start checking for spots that need shimming. Held in place with just a brad nail at each intersection means I can easily bring a given spot down a bit for shimming. Once I'm happy everything is flat I'll go back with the framing nailer and put two ring shank nails at each intersection.

The new ~80 square foot corner in the kitchen where the demo happened, that sub-floor is also very weird. (it was a different addition than the kitchen in the past).  It's the same height as the sub-floor at the kitchen where it starts, but then seems to drop as you move toward the exterior wall, nearly a 3/4" difference, plus the floor is very bouncy right in the middle.. Thinking I may have to cut out that whole exposed sub-floor corner, maybe sister some extra joists up to the proper height and then replace the sub-floor to get ready to weave in new oak.

lots to do! But at least now I'm not waiting on slow contractors.  Next up is to re-route the plumbing vents that are now in the way, re-route an HVAC line that was directly in the corner we pulled out, run some new electrical, get the drywaller in to do his thing, get the hardwood floor guy in to do his thing, then finally start assembling all the cabinets  (countertop template measuring tentatively 2nd week of August, fingers crossed I make it!)

I've managed to keep the fridge, microwave, oven, dishwasher, sink and gas cooktop functional throughout! Gotta love the old wall oven/microwave combo standing free with the walls having been excised from around it, lol. 

   

   

   

   

[MstrCarpenter]

Great build along Mound! A few things I learned while making custom under cabinet LED light strips. Although almost any 16 or 18 ga wire will power the lights, fire alarm wire has the approvals to be concealed in walls. That makes the Inspector happy, but don't solder it directly to the strips. Solid wire makes that joint too fragile. On subsequent installs I added a short length of stranded wire between them, short enough that shrink tubing insulated the (staggered) connections and entered the channel as well. I intalled a receptical controlled by a dimmer switch behind one of the drawers to plug the transformer into. They were cheap enough, so I left a spare back there too.

[Cabinet Monkey]

Great build along Mound! A few things I learned while making custom under cabinet LED light strips. Although almost any 16 or 18 ga wire will power the lights, fire alarm wire has the approvals to be concealed in walls. That makes the Inspector happy, but don't solder it directly to the strips. Solid wire makes that joint too fragile. On subsequent installs I added a short length of stranded wire between them, short enough that shrink tubing insulated the (staggered) connections and entered the channel as well. I intalled a receptical controlled by a dimmer switch behind one of the drawers to plug the transformer into. They were cheap enough, so I left a spare back there too.

This has always been a sore subject with me an inspectors.  The reason those wires aren’t “approved” is because of the jacketing.  When burned , it gives off noxious gas.  

My question has alway been to them -  if the place is burning to such an extent that the (small) LED wires in the walls are on fire - do you think I’m still alive inside that building ?   Is there any oxygen left for me to breath in with that bad gas if I am ? 

Stranded speaker wire (appropriately rated of course) is what we spec for long runs back to the drivers in our designs.

[MstrCarpenter]

This has always been a sore subject with me an inspectors.  The reason those wires aren’t “approved” is because of the jacketing.  When burned , it gives off noxious gas.  

My question has alway been to them -  if the place is burning to such an extent that the (small) LED wires in the walls are on fire - do you think I’m still alive inside that building ?   Is there any oxygen left for me to breath in with that bad gas if I am ? 

Stranded speaker wire (appropriately rated of course) is what we spec for long runs back to the drivers in our designs.

Have you found any speaker wire that has any approvals to be concealed in walls? And if the fumes are the only consern, why is it o.k. to use speaker wire for speakers?

[mound]

Have you found any speaker wire that has any approvals to be concealed in walls? And if the fumes are the only consern, why is it o.k. to use speaker wire for speakers?

Interesting. I had planned to use stranded speaker wire for the LEDs..  I found loads of old speaker wire running through the walls of this house.. Everything is wireless these days!

[Cabinet Monkey]

Have you found any speaker wire that has any approvals to be concealed in walls? And if the fumes are the only consern, why is it o.k. to use speaker wire for speakers?

Let me try and educate you a bit, as it seems your perspective is that speaker wire only comes in that copper/silver with a clear jacket variety you buy at Walmart.

Of course there is speaker wire with appropriate jacketing (and other characteristics) that is approved for concealing in walls.  How do you think all of those whole house distributed audio systems pass inspection ?  Or intercom systems in commercial buildings get approval ? 

The “approved” wire  goes through a UL certification which tests it for things like its ability to deal with surges, flame spread and toxic fumes when burned.   It is speaker wire , but not “speaker wire” as you know it. 

https://www.snapav.com/shop/en/snapav/sp...cs-1000-wh

And it is approved for concealing in walls and ceilings.   The most common ratings are CL2 & CL3.


You raise an interesting question on the fumes and “regular speaker wire” that’s not concealed.  That is the bone of my contention with inspectors that beef -    because that wire and its fumes are more accessible in a fire …………………..so why such concern for a 10’ run of LED light wire concealed behind drywall that has some resistance to flame spread. 

Interesting. I had planned to use stranded speaker wire for the LEDs..  I found loads of old speaker wire running through the walls of this house.. Everything is wireless these days!

Mound

even through distribution is trending to wireless these days , you still need wires for the last leg to the speakers.  Even if you get a fancy , techy, “wireless speaker”  that receive the media wirelessly - it still requires wires to get power.