03-01-2022, 08:26 AM (This post was last modified: 03-01-2022, 08:30 AM by mound.)
Here is a wide veneered panel that includes a seam. You'd never know there was a seam until you know, and even then it's very hard to find. For anybody reading along who might be curious, I'll outline the process I used.
First, the veneered panel. It's 18" wide and 54" long (it's not yet trimmed to final size.) If you look closely you can see a small pencil carpenters triangle, that's where the joint is.
There are two of these, forming the "end panels" of the upper cabinet over the wet-bar. (The cabinet itself is 3/4" prefinished maple plywood, like all others, but with oak on the outside.
So I start with two chunks of the veneer, ideally sequential in the flitch, but from the same length is fine, especially with such a straight grain pattern.
Then I overlap them until I see what looks like a good match position. This may also involve rotating or flipping one, whatever looks best.
Then I set my track saw track down the overlapping area - but not necessarily perpendicular to the edge, rather, in a line that I think follows the grain best.
Once cut, the two mating pieces fit together perfectly and since the seam isn't straight up and down along the length, it further disappears. Using the track saw with a sharp blade and good piece of foam or backer under it makes for an extremely clean cut and perfect glue line. It's important to get the seam glued and taped closed quickly after cutting before anything decides to change shape (DAMHIKT!)
I didn't take pix of the glue process, but I stretch several pieces of blue tape across the seam, pulling it tight, then one long piece down the length. Then, flip it over and fold it back a bit exposing the two edges, blue tape below, forming a nice little channel to run a thin bead of glue down the length. The 1/16" veneer thickness is especially nice for this seaming process. Then fold it back tight, couple more pieces of tape on the other side and good to go. After about 30 minutes, scrap away any globs of glue squeeze out before they harden too much (carefully with a sharp chisel!) and after about 45 min it's safe to remove all the tape, glue up the substrate and get it under pressure in the vacuum bag (both sides of course)
I never would have guessed a tracksaw could create such perfect seams. Very clever.
FWIW, gluing the seams is a mixed bag. A friend and I have proven the joint is not nearly as strong as a clamped joint, because it's not clamped. We've both had seams open up from seasonal expansion. And if the seam shifts at all during drying then the veneer won't lay flat everywhere and you end up with a hollow spot after pressing. For those reasons I gave up on gluing the seams. I use veneer tape like you use blue tape and use Unibond 800 (since Plastic Resin Glue is no longer available) to glue the panels down. No seam failures since.
If you ever go to Certainly Wood, come up to Lewiston for a visit. I'm just 30 minutes N of Buffalo.
(03-01-2022, 10:47 AM)jteneyck Wrote: I never would have guessed a tracksaw could create such perfect seams. Very clever.
FWIW, gluing the seams is a mixed bag. A friend and I have proven the joint is not nearly as strong as a clamped joint, because it's not clamped. We've both had seams open up from seasonal expansion. And if the seam shifts at all during drying then the veneer won't lay flat everywhere and you end up with a hollow spot after pressing. For those reasons I gave up on gluing the seams. I use veneer tape like you use blue tape and use Unibond 800 (since Plastic Resin Glue is no longer available) to glue the panels down. No seam failures since.
If you ever go to Certainly Wood, come up to Lewiston for a visit. I'm just 30 minutes N of Buffalo.
John
Interesting! I always kinda wondered if gluing the seam was needed or not.. Always just kinda assumed it was better if for nothing else than to ensure it stays put during the vacuum pressing process. I've only ever used Unibond for bent laminations but I suppose it's probably "better" for flat work too in that it's rigid, and doesn't add any moisture to the substrate or veneer during the process.
(03-01-2022, 11:08 AM)mound Wrote: Interesting! I always kinda wondered if gluing the seam was needed or not.. Always just kinda assumed it was better if for nothing else than to ensure it stays put during the vacuum pressing process. I've only ever used Unibond for bent laminations but I suppose it's probably "better" for flat work too in that it's rigid, and doesn't add any moisture to the substrate or veneer during the process.
Unibond has water in the liquid resin portion, so it does add moisture to the process. But it works great and it's my default veneer glue now.
Not much to show in the way of new pictures, but all veneering is done (40 panels in total) and all solid wood has gone through first stage of milling to final thickness and breaking down.. Gotta start thinking about best plan of attack to start pulling it all together. The structural work in the kitchen to remove the walls and put in the beams hasn't happened yet, I'm told it'll happen in March, here's hoping. Then will have to fill in the flooring, sand/finish that.. Also got word that the appliances, which were ordered all together in AUGUST (!!) have finally arrived. They said I must take delivery or they'll give them to the next customers in line and make me re-order them, so those will be coming this weekend and I'll just have to store them somewhere probably in the living room until ready to install. (They tell me I just have to open them and confirm no cosmetic issues upon delivery, but they'll take care of any functional issues, if any are found, once installed.)
I'm thinking once the structural work/floor is done and a temporary kitchen is staged in the dining room, I'll start actually assembling the plywood boxes with drawer slides, and get them in place in the kitchen. Having final box dimensions, I can then get precise actual achieved measurements upon which to base the actual dimensions of the doors and drawers.. I'll story stick at that point because plywood isn't exactly 3/4" and while I was pretty darn accurate with my plywood breakdown, the show faces (doors and drawers) need to fit what I actually built, with consistent gaps everywhere. So I won't rely on what SketchUp tells me from this point on.
If I get all carcass parts positioned and installed in the kitchen, even before drawers and doors are ready, then I can get moving on measuring for the quartz, as that's an 8-10 week lead time from the day they measure. Then, just start making doors and drawers and installing them as I go. The 2-car garage shop would fill up fast if I try to stage the boxes out there so staging everything in place, to get that quartz measured and ordered, seems like the best way.
Somewhere in and around that process of course I have to figure out painting/finishing. Not much gets painted, the appliance wall doors and face frames and the upper doors, the rest is all natural oak, still planning on Rubio Monocoat for that.
Finally, a visual reminder of why using a metal detector is important (which I say, but never do, and didn't do here either . Had to replace my jointer blades because of this!) That wasn't a bullet, and I don't think it was a nail. I dug it out, it almost seemed like a long twisted chunk of barbed wire or something.. Pretty cool how the iron/rust discolors it. Also, yes, apparently I'm the world's best #1 Dad (just noticed that in the pic!)
Appliances have all arrived. Earlier than I need them, which is OK since I ordered them in AUGUST!
Unfortunately the dishwasher is all crushed, so they have to order me a new one. Still plenty of time.
03-17-2022, 12:12 PM (This post was last modified: 03-17-2022, 12:15 PM by jteneyck.)
Yep, metal shows up even in commercial wood. I get it pretty often in the urban logs I saw. Often you will see the black stain on the butt of log so you know there is metal somewhere above it in the log, but sometimes there's no sign of it. So I always check with a metal detector and that finds some of the hidden metal. The saw blade seems to find the rest, but your photo shows that a few still get through.
When I built my kitchen I had appliances stacked in my living room for months. You get used to it. Your plan to check the final dimensions needed for the doors/drawers after installing the boxes is good.
(04-05-2022, 02:50 AM)Jomaryngs Wrote: Fascinating following your progress! Loooks like things are getting to the interesting stage now, time to pick out colors and features and whatnot. When we were doing up our kitchen earlier this year we found DELETED LINK which we found super helpful for getting inspiration for color combinations. Good luck!
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. Had to replace my jointer blades because of this!) That wasn't a bullet, and I don't think it was a nail. I dug it out, it almost seemed like a long twisted chunk of barbed wire or something.. Pretty cool how the iron/rust discolors it. Also, yes, apparently I'm the world's best #1 Dad (just noticed that in the pic!)
![[Image: usa-flag-waving-united-states-of-america...if-clr.gif]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-SdvKu-L208M/VZUtWiQXwrI/AAAAAAABPpQ/J-sZlaYEagg/s1600/usa-flag-waving-united-states-of-america-animated-gif-clr.gif)