Gouges

[robo hippy]

Well, it kind of depends in part by what you mean by 'spindle' gouge. Generally though, the bowl gouges are designed for this type of work.

So, the designs, spindle/detail type gouge is usually shallow fluted, has a 35 or so degree bevel, and kind of pointy. They are fine for doing detail type things like beads on bowls, but pretty much worthless for any other type of cutting on bowls. Standard spindle roughing gouge (SRG) is generally ground straight across the nose/no sweep to the wings, has a half round flute shape, and about a 45 or so degree bevel. They can be used on bowls but have fallen out of favor. On the outside of a bowl, fairly safe, but higher risk on the inside of a bowl because the wing sticks up and can catch. There are similar bowl gouge profiles, often called Bottom Feeders, but they differ in that they have a bevel of about 60 to 70 degrees, and also have a bit of sweep to the nose. They are better suited to fine finish cuts going through the transition and across the bottom of the bowls.

Officially, the AAW (American Assn. of Woodturners), and a lot of turners are trying to get every one to call them 'spindle' roughing gouges, instead of 'roughing gouges'. There have been a number if cases of people getting hurt by this type of gouge getting bent or broken at the tang (part that sticks into the handle) when used for bowl turning. In the hands of experts, they can work, but for the general beginner, best and safer if you use bowl gouges. Any tool can be used safely, and dangerously depending on skill and knowledge level.

robo hippy

[Arlin Eastman]

Yah

Lyle Jamieson taught me 60* but I also know to get the bottom done there are 80* bevels and Glenn Lucas likes 55* on his tools.

I am really thinking the degree depends on what kind of thing you are making and who taught you or if you are self taught you can have about anything under the sun for a degree.

I do think most bowl gouges are from 50* to 85* tho for removing wood at different places on the object turned.

Mike Mahoney now has some aggressive tools that is sold under his name and the one for the bottom of the bowls is called "The Bottom feeder" and he has his tool grinds because he is a production turner and is very aggressive in his turning to get it done faster.

Then there is more options where guys put two bevels on a gouge. That is to confusing for me so I will stick with one bevel for now until someone shows me how and why.


For a spindle gouge I have mine from 20* to 30* depending how much I want it swept back for detailing. I also know there is a difference from a normal spindle gauge to a detail gauge. A detail gouge has less flute and it allows it to be swept back more with more stability. I do not know if I am 100% correct on this or not tho.

I would like to get a detail gouge and put them together to really see the difference.


Arlin

[Leo Van Der Loo]

As usual it depends IMO on first what you are turning, I mean endgrain or side grain, as on smaller pieces of endgrain I do use a spindle gouge often enough, but not on a bigger side grain bowl.
The reason is that a spindle gouge has not a deeper U that gives it the strength to hang farther over the tool rest, so it can/will vibrate if it hangs a little farther over the tool rest, and than dig in or catch, it is called a spindle gouge for a reason.
As for the spindle roughing gouge, you could use one that has the same shaft as a bowl gouge, P&N does make them, and grind a bevel the same as on a bowl gouge, it will not behave the same as a bowl gouge but can be used IMO.
The Continental gouge, I don’t think I would call it a spindle gouge, it is different, and IMO can certainly be used as a bowl gouge, but again it will behave different, and sometimes it will work where another gouge wont.
It is good to have choices .

[dartman]

Wow,there is a whole lot of information for me to process here.I am trying to use my carbide tools less and get educated on using traditional turning tools.I do have a spindle gouge and have been using it and sharpening it as it was new.I do know to not use a roughing gouge inside a bowl so it looks like it's time to save up for a gouge for doing the insides.As always,thank you for all the info guys.

[Wildwood]

Everyone has or learns best bevel angle for style or form of bowl they turn. Have bowl gouges with angles ranging from 45, 50, 55, & 60 degrees. Why so many different gouges with bevel angles? Simply all about not leaving tool marks at the bottom of a bowl impossible to sand out. My heavy duty scrapers have 65 to 70 degree bevel angles. Have one negative rake scraper.

Wish Ask Dale article found in “Woodturning Design,” still on line showing different style bowls and suggested bevel angles and compromise angles.

If look wood central link posted earlier most use 60 degree angle on their bowl gouge. Unfortunitely don't show style of bowls those folks turn. If remeber right many of the UK turner bowl gouges in Craft Supply catalog come with 45 degree angles or double bevels.

I am fine with whatever works for you!

[robo hippy]

Well, for bevel angles, I think most of the Irish/Ellsworth type grinds are at 60 degrees. This is a good all purpose design. I think most of the time when roughing the outside, the wing is used more than the nose. On the inside of bowls, 60 degrees will get you down through the transition and across the bottoms of most bowls. Some times I just prefer the 70 and it will get me through every thing I do. Going less than that is more for shallow forms. So, think of a 45 degree inside cone shape. A 45 degree bevel will do fine. If it gets steeper than that, some where down inside, especially with curves, you eventually run into the problem of the gouge handle hitting the rim of the bowl or your lathe bed. This is when you need to switch.

Arlin, for removing the heel, and I know I bring this up some where in my videos, for the bevel rubbing cuts, you want the bevel to rub as close to the cutting edge for control. So, on a convex/bows out surface, bevel angle doesn't make any difference. On the concave surfaces, you rub on the bottom of the heel. If the heel is sharp, you get a series of concentric rings on the inside of the bowl. The sharp heel will actually bruise the wood (especially wet wood), leaving marks that you can't sand out, and it pushes/self feeds the gouge into the cut rather than let you control the cut. When you round off the heel, that rounded shape is much easier to control, and you keep the bevel closer to the cutting edge.

robo hippy

[NCPaladin]

On bevels, and similar to the Russ Fairfield link, here is a double bevel.
The sharper the curve in the turning (a dog food bowl compared to a wok) the smaller the turning radius. By grinding a second bevel you shorten the distance from the cutting edge to the heel allowing it to scoot around the curve easier.
Much like the turning radius for a Ranger and a F350, the F350 just takes more room because of the size.
You may achieve this by changing the angle from maybe a 45* to a 65* which will shorten the distance but maybe you want to keep the 45*.
You can see how much longer the bevel would be if it and the wing were extended down. The second bevel probably shortened it by half at least.

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[kludge]

Dennis Puskar said:

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It is dangerous never use a spindle gouge on the inside of a bowl, I know a guy that has 4 stitches in his forhead from using one.

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I almost hurt myself very badly doing this in the first week with my lathe:


lucky for me the only casualty was a BROKEN spindle gouge and a new respect for my lathe's torque.