Federal Pacific Stab-Loc Breaker Boxes

[Bob10]

No idea but I have heard lots of bad news about the Federal as the OP acknowledged the problem if he landed in court he would fry. Then again as a landlord even if he didn't know they would say he should have known.

[Snipe Hunter]

It should be noted: Federal Pacific panels and breakers got their UL listing inappropriately. I don't really know the details but the panels should never have gotten UL approval. Simply replacing the breakers is not a fix. The bus bars have been known to arc, overheat and cause fires and the breakers are known to fail, overheat and cause fires even in the "off" position.

I've seen pictures of replacement panels mounted to the front of Federal Pacific Electric (FPE) panels which from what I understand is legal. I'd certainly check with an electrician first.

[Admiral]

Thanks to all. Its on my list to get replaced.

[JIMB49]

we are just saying that you need to replace this panel http://inspectapedia.com/fpe/FPE_Fire_Photographs.php
the pics might help

[Herb G]

I've personally seen more FP panels burned up than any other brand on the market, including GE.

There's a reason they outlawed them 40 years ago.
The panels are a fire hazard, & so are the transformers.
Panel fire will burn down a house, a transformer failure will blow up an entire building.

[JIMB49]

yes herb did 30 years in our local
still remember the hand out they gave us
oh the transformers !!!! still think some should have hung some one from fpe

[theeviltwinn]

Come on Snipe, as a home inspector you should know UL never approves anything. UL tests things for safety. If they pass, they get listed as to what standards were met. Look at a UL label. It says "Listed" and has the number of the standard. You will never see anything from UL saying something is approved. Companies who say their products are UL approved are lying.

Twinn

[Robert Adams]

Snipe Hunter said:

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It should be noted: Federal Pacific panels and breakers got their UL listing inappropriately. I don't really know the details but the panels should never have gotten UL approval. Simply replacing the breakers is not a fix. The bus bars have been known to arc, overheat and cause fires and the breakers are known to fail, overheat and cause fires even in the "off" position.

I've seen pictures of replacement panels mounted to the front of Federal Pacific Electric (FPE) panels which from what I understand is legal. I'd certainly check with an electrician first.

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During testing they had rigged it so they breaker would trip when oberloaded. They used an external mechanism that was hidden to cause it to trip. The detailed info is out there somewhere.
They ended up loosing their up approval later on. But UL isn't the only testing body and I find that many inspectors don't realize that. UL is one of the better ones but they are slow and expensive compared to RU and others.
Had an inspector once on a new restaraunt check that all the equipment had UL listed stickers.. He had no idea about much else...


The stabloc panels were junk IMO and the commercial panels weren't much better as I have seen way too many overloaded outlets burn up plugs and wiring and the breaker never trip.
What's scary is that Square D bought federal pacific and they still produce the stabloc panels and breakers to this day. They supposedly fixed them so they would trip and changed the plastic from black to white and they sell them mainly in Canada and Mexico. It really is surprising that they would continue to sell a known bad product. Also if you directly ask them if the new breaker is a redesigned unit they will not give you a straight answer. This is one of the reasons I don't like to use much square d products as it gives me less faith in their product when they pull that kind of stuff in other markets.

[Foggy]

Way back in the late '60's I was wiring apartments with FP panels. The quick easy way to find which breaker and shut it off was to short out the circuit and trip the breaker. That did not work with FP. You could stick the hot and neutral together until you burned away all the wire in the outlet box and not trip the breaker. I've got a box of FP breakers if anyone is interested in them.

[Snipe Hunter]

theeviltwinn said:

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Come on Snipe, as a home inspector you should know UL never approves anything. UL tests things for safety. If they pass, they get listed as to what standards were met. Look at a UL label. It says "Listed" and has the number of the standard. You will never see anything from UL saying something is approved. Companies who say their products are UL approved are lying.

Twinn

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You're right. It's really just my job to let folks know if something is performing the function it was intended to perform or if it isn't, where it is in it's life cycle and point out any known safety hazards. "Observe and report". The discovery of an FPE panel is one of the few things that is pre-written in my inspection report software. Written my lawyers to protect my butt.