Ideal jointer size?

[TGW]

Good to know that it's a reputable brand. Did they make 12" ones? I don't think I need a 16" one. That may change in the next couple years, but I kinda doubt it.

Are you a hobbyist or a professional (or somewhere in between)? I'm sure at some point I'd love to build furniture and stuff for others on an occasional basis, but I'm just a hobbyist for now.

As for the rest of what you said, I'll have to look up what those other cutterheads look like. How much do the jointers with those heads typically cost? Not sure how much a 12" Byrd Shelix cutterhead would be for one, but if the total cost was less than about $1200 I'd definitely consider that. I can do with a regular 3 or 4 knife head if that's already in place, though...at least if the price is within my range.

I started by going through the joinery program of a vocational school.
Then I went into construction and did joinery and furnituremaking as a hobby för almost 10 years.
Then I ended up on hard times without enough work  so I stated taking on some joinery projects for pay as a sideline. That was when I went up from a 10 inch jointer/planer to a 24 inch model. The small one was just not efficient enough to turn a profit. I was a parttime professional for a few years.
Then my health and my entire life broke down and now I am on the mend thanks to single payer health care. Intending to go into joinery almost full time with carpentry as a sideline as soon as I am healthy enough. I still have the machines.

I know very little about prices in your country. Here in Finland prices are quite different and most elderly machines European made. However as a general rule of thumb old industrial machines are a little cheaper in USA than in Finland.
I was recently offered a very fine 12" E.V.Beronius with clamshell head and ball bearings probably made around 1915 för 300 euros. That is a typical price in Finland.

If you can find a good one with gibbed head that will surely be a better buy but they aren't always easy to find.

I was always taught that for small scale work (hobbyist or parttimer) the jointer should be wide enough to face joint the widest boards you regularly use in one pass.
For large scale professional work the jointer should ideally be as wide as the planer. To enable face jointing of glued panels in one pass. 24" was the standard size in the old days. That ability to face joint everything saves a lot of time and improves quality.

[KingwoodFan1989]

I started by going through the joinery program of a vocational school.
Then I went into construction and did joinery and furnituremaking as a hobby för almost 10 years.
Then I ended up on hard times without enough work  so I stated taking on some joinery projects for pay as a sideline. That was when I went up from a 10 inch jointer/planer to a 24 inch model. The small one was just not efficient enough to turn a profit. I was a parttime professional for a few years.
Then my health and my entire life broke down and now I am on the mend thanks to single payer health care. Intending to go into joinery almost full time with carpentry as a sideline as soon as I am healthy enough. I still have the machines.

I know very little about prices in your country. Here in Finland prices are quite different and most elderly machines European made. However as a general rule of thumb old industrial machines are a little cheaper in USA than in Finland.
I was recently offered a very fine 12" E.V.Beronius with clamshell head and ball bearings probably made around 1915 för 300 euros. That is a typical price in Finland.

If you can find a good one with gibbed head that will surely be a better buy but they aren't always easy to find.

I was always taught that for small scale work (hobbyist or parttimer) the jointer should be wide enough to face joint the widest boards you regularly use in one pass.
For large scale professional work the jointer should ideally be as wide as the planer. To enable face jointing of glued panels in one pass. 24" was the standard size in the old days. That ability to face joint everything saves a lot of time and improves quality.

I'm sorry to hear about the rough times you've had, but I'm glad it's getting better! IIRC, 300 Euros is somewhere between $400-500 in the U.S. (where I am), so that's a good deal! I think I already said this in the initial post in this thread, but all the projects I've done involve wood that's mostly between 6 and 10 inches wide, going over or under those measurements now and then. Did they make 10" jointers way back when? I've seen lots of 8's and 12's, but no 10's. In case I haven't said so already, my planer is a 12 and 1/2" DeWalt "lunchbox" model, so my 6" jointer is basically half of that. Still, I feel it's undersized even for what I do, so I don't think having a jointer nearly as wide or basically equal to my planer is just for big shops. I don't need anything wider than a 12" planer. I'm pretty attentive to detail when gluing up wide panels, making sure they're flat and even and that the boards are flush well before the glue starts to really set up. I basically never have trouble with that, and if any tiny bits of unevenness show up, I have a 4" Bosch belt sander that can take care of it. Not to change the subject, but at this point I don't think I'll ever even get a thickness sander. Not sure what I'll do if and when my DeWalt planer gives out, but for now I'm not working with single boards that are wider than that.

[Derek Cohen]

There is no correct answer.

But I was always told the rule of thumb is half the size of your planner. So a benchtop ---> 6", 15" stationary----> 8".....20" stationary ---> 12"....reason being is you can face joint a board fully (by rotating it after the first pass). 

With that being said, I have a 6" with a 15" stationary planner. So I break my rule. 


I dont see the value in taking up space with a larger jointer, cause I generally edge joint.

My rule of thumb is that the jointer needs to be capable of processing the typical largest sized timber you are capable of resawing. If your resaw ability is 12", then a 12" jointer is needed.

I am a big fan of combo machines, since they give you the wide jointer at a discounted price. That does not mean cheap! Width is more important to me than length. I have a Hammer A3-31 combo and a Hammer N4400 bandsaw. Not cheap, but I have been doing this for some decades now and worked my way to this point. I can recommend jumping to the level if you can afford it. Otherwise look for a used or less expensive similar machine.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[KingwoodFan1989]

My rule of thumb is that the jointer needs to be capable of processing the typical largest sized timber you are capable of resawing. If your resaw ability is 12", then a 12" jointer is needed.

I am a big fan of combo machines, since they give you the wide jointer at a discounted price. That does not mean cheap! Width is more important to me than length. I have a Hammer A3-31 combo and a Hammer N4400 bandsaw. Not cheap, but I have been doing this for some decades now and worked my way to this point. I can recommend jumping to the level if you can afford it. Otherwise look for a used or less expensive similar machine.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Yes, combo machines have been on my mind as well. Grizzly's G0634Z 12" combo machine looks nice and I've never heard anything bad about it other than small quirks. It is about $2500, so I wish they made one that just had a standard cutterhead. Their 10" combo machine has a 2 knife head and is less than $1500, but the planer can only handle up to 9 and 3/4. I think I'll e-mail Grizzly and see why that is and if there are any modifications planned in the next couple years for a little over 10", as that model can handle 10 and 1/4" on the jointer. And as I said before, I like a little extra wiggle room on these machines. I'll also check with them if there is any chance of a G0634 12" model with a standard cutterhead. If that was out two years or so from now, I'd probably go with that. If not, the 10" G0675 with a slightly wider planer capacity would work okay. I'll just see how it goes.

[TGW]

Did they make 10" jointers way back when? I've seen lots of 8's and 12's, but no 10's.

Ejca in Värnamo in Sweden made 10 inch jointers and 10 inch jointer/planers on the same frame in the 1950-ies.
Wadkin-Bursgreen in England actually made 9 inch jointers back in those days.
There are lots of elderly machines that most woodworkers today would hardly believe exist.

In my oppinion the difference between a good and a not soo god jointer is in the way the tables are supported. A good and usually expensive jointer will have either paralellogram movement or four separate sloping ways under each table or very long ways and a separate wedge like the 16" L.Power you refered to. Then it is possible to adjust the tables to make them coplanar if they ever go out of alignment.

A cheap and not so good jointer will have only short dovetailed ways machined in the end of long overhanging table. With the tiniest amount of wear or warpage the tables will no longer be straight and coplanar and fixing it is very difficult.

[Cian]

My rule of thumb is that the jointer needs to be capable of processing the typical largest sized timber you are capable of resawing. If your resaw ability is 12", then a 12" jointer is needed.

I agree with Derek. To rephrase, I recommend getting a jointer to handle the lumber width you would normally get access to for the projects you intend to make, and then get a bandsaw that can also handle that same dimension (or else you’ll be doing a lot of ripping and edge gluing). Planers (even benchtop models) typically have a wider capacity than most jointers so you should be fine there (unless you’re in Dave Diaman’s league then all bets are off).

[EdL]

There is an owwm member currently restoring a 30" Porter jointer......


Ed

[KingwoodFan1989]

Well I e-mailed Grizzly asking about any possible updates to their 10" and 12" combo machines (namely, a slightly wider planing capacity on the first and a standard cutterhead on the second). The customer service rep who responded said that essentially they aren't aware of any upcoming changes or modifications. I guess I'll just have to wait a while and keep looking at used machines. And who knows, Grizzly might come out with something that I could afford new.

[Arlin Eastman]

This is what the VA got me

Grizzly G0452Z - 6" X 46" Jointer w/ Spiral Cutterhead and it works like a dream and little noise like a bladed one.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-X-46-J...ead/G0452Z


Here are some options you can get with Grizzly 12" and hopefully in the future to get that size to.

Grizzly G0609X - 12" Jointer w/ Spiral Cutterhead                                                   

http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-Joint...ead/G0609X


Or a little bit better one

Grizzly G9860ZX - 12" Z Series Jointer w/ Spiral Cutterhead

http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-Z-Ser...ad/G9860ZX


Or the 16"

Grizzly G9953ZX - 16" Z Series Jointer w/ Spiral Cutterhead                                                   

http://www.grizzly.com/products/16-Z-Ser...ad/G9953ZX

http://www.grizzly.com/products/16-Z-Ser...ad/G9953ZX#

[KingwoodFan1989]

This is what the VA got me

Grizzly G0452Z - 6" X 46" Jointer w/ Spiral Cutterhead and it works like a dream and little noise like a bladed one.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-X-46-J...ead/G0452Z

This might be a dumb question, but what does "VA" mean? I'm kinda behind on certain things, haha.

Also, I have the straight knife version of that jointer. It does work great, and in fact, the only issues (besides regular maintenance with knives as such) I've had in almost 9 years of having it have been these: 

1. In removing and reinstalling the blade guard, something inside broke and the guard no longer retracts like it should. It actually happened fairly early on and I do wish I could fix it. 
2. The old belt started to shred a bit and so I replaced it with one of those red chain link style ones. Haven't had any issues with the belt since.

The only problem is that 6" is just too small. As a hobbyist, I'm sure I could scrape by with an 8" one, but as I've said my typical lumber width for what I do is like 6-10", so a 10" or a 12" would be just right. Those bigger Grizzly machines you told me about are good (I'm sure GREAT in the case of the pricier ones) and they'd be pretty much ideal, but I honestly don't want to spend more than like $1500-$2000 (including shipping and tax). Call me cheap, but that's just how I'm rolling at this point, haha. Thus, I'm either hoping for Grizzly's 12" combo machine to get a standard cutterhead (to bring it into my price range) or for their 10" combo model to get a tiny bit more width capacity in the planer. Alternatively, many on here have told me about old used machines in the size I need, so I'll also be keeping my eye out for one of those if neither of the first two things I talked about happens.