Some workbench questions

[hbmcc]

Hah! I don't think Ez duzit is showing a hobby shop. I'm drooling! Now, I am encouraged to display my modest bits of work areas--no shop, just a collection.

[hyperlinx]

MattP;

I know you've gotten quite alot of advice about bench size and construction.  Here's a link for a recommendation on a larger sized bench....might not mesh exactly with your plans for color and materials, but I've been considering building one like this since its usable on all sides for different functions.

http://woodtreks.com/design-build-tradit...ises/1651/

GL on all your build decisions and keep us in the loop as your progress, esp. as you find things you like and don't like about your final build.

Hyperlinx

[MattP]

MattP;

I know you've gotten quite alot of advice about bench size and construction.  Here's a link for a recommendation on a larger sized bench....might not mesh exactly with your plans for color and materials, but I've been considering building one like this since its usable on all sides for different functions.

http://woodtreks.com/design-build-tradit...ises/1651/

GL on all your build decisions and keep us in the loop as your progress, esp. as you find things you like and don't like about your final build.

Hyperlinx

That's a pretty interesting bench he has there. I had similar ideas about using the 4 corners of the bench, but his bench is much better thought out than I had gotten. Thanks for the link; quite helpful.

[MattP]

Bench design:

If you plan to futz and plane a lot, try a couple hours on a timber and sawhorses at various heights. I can give you the skinny on everything from sitting on steps to chairs to tailgates to sawhorses (virgin) at whatever height they are. My favorite is a lawn chair but only when using a block plane. (And, having a cool one at my side.) The important thing is to do final evaluation for a long time, on separate days. 

I discovered the flaw in Veritas tote design by doing height experiments. The tote angle demands a higher bench which forces more arm and upper body effort to plane. And, yes, layout and gluing always feel better when you are vertical; which is why there are separate layout tables and workbenches.  

Your project plans do benefit from a big work surface. So go for the 48 x 96 combo-work-layout top. You can always make the cute roubo and build jewelry boxes later.

As a designer giving free advice, you are welcome to go blind. But, a black work surface is far from cool. I don't know how many times I predicted the age of an architect/interior designer based on the surface colors they chose. Ask the senior attempting to travel through the spaces having dark surfaces what he prefers. Also, imagine how fun it is to rub work surface colors onto project wood. I even find oxidized scum from tools irritating. 

You should have discovered the nightmare of combining final fabrication and initial rough work on one surface. Schwarz is obviously OCD about cleanliness. He'd have a constant stream of broken body parts if he allowed work litter to stay on that hardwood floor. His ten-year-old Roubo looks as new as the publication date. I clean my sharpening stones with separate towels and routinely wash rags and pads. The killer for me has always been doing everything on one surface.

Enough rambling.

Yeah, this bench height issue is going to require  a lot of thought and experimentation. Definitely something I am going to be spending time on. My current bench is 38" tall, and the only time it feels too high is when I am edge jointing. 

As for the black--sorry, we are just going to have to agree to disagree, although I do appreciate your opinion. I've worked on light work surfaces and I have worked on dark--olive drab, to be exact, if you get my meaning, and I can honestly say it doesn't matter, provided you have good lighting. And I have VERY good lighting; among other things, I have 300 watts that I carry around with me (gonna put it on rollers so I can roll it along with me) and position right over my shoulder when I'm working. Part of my misspent youth was spent in lighting design, so I am completely confident in my assessment of black being a non-issue in my case. YMMV, of course. I just happen to have lucked into a situation where I have lights galore.

Actually, no, I haven't discovered the nightmare of rough work and final fabrication on the same surface, unless you mean running my shop vac over the workbench after the rough work and before the finish work? There certainly are some inconveniences associated with using the same surface for both. There are inconveniences associated with any design choice. Design is all about making the trade offs that make the most sense for your individual situation. That's ALL there is to design, really. You can't have everything, so you have to make compromises that make sense for you. That's it, really.

[Adnick]

"I discovered the flaw in Veritas tote design by doing height experiments. The tote angle demands a higher bench which forces more arm and upper body effort to plane. And, yes, layout and gluing always feel better when you are vertical; which is why there are separate layout tables and workbenches. "

I plane a lot sitting at the bench,which changes the design aspects, anyway discovered the same tote flaw, don't currently own any LV bench planes because of it.

I'm a fan of doing everything at one location, been working on the disabled human interface to the woodworking shop for years ;-)

Went vocational tech college right out of high school then to work as an automobile mechanic and painter on commission for 7 years, that's how I paid for a liberal arts college degree.

Anyway the point is, one do not make money on commission by leaving tools out and about so that combined with another lifetime in the Army, has made me very OCD about "tool discipline" and cleaning, and workshop ergonomics,

Some famous person said something about being the sum of life experiences, and having any clean, warm/cool dry, well lighted work eviorment where no one is intent on killing you, is a blessing....everything else is minuscule.

Enough ramblings from me, can't tell I've been up most of the night can you ;-0

Make sure you post pictures of your final product and work area, looking forward to the end product.

Best Regards
Andy

[hbmcc]

"I have 300 watts that I carry around with me (gonna put it on rollers so I can roll it along with me) and position right over my shoulder when I'm working."

Yup! I think you have the shadow spooks scared away with that false sun over the shoulder.
 One thing I always chase is the oblique light angle that catches finish defects. A lot of finish ends up as dust.

I saw the Patrick Edwards video some time ago and was very impressed. However, in its present form his bench requires more space than I have.  

The whole idea of work (space) and benches in particular has been a fascination for me, and obviously, others also. I started out with scrap lumber in a dark shed, moved to a dank, dark basement; and then over the adult years, all sorts of arrangements. 

The one over riding negative for me is a bench smashed into a wall--I hate that. It's not so much that Edwards has two benches in one, but that he works around the bench, 360 degrees. What I do whenever I can. For me, there is no inspiration from staring into a wall two to three feet away. But mostly, benches on a wall are simply a big shelf to pile things onto. With a centered bench/work area, you can control lighting far better than from one and possibly, three sides. Taking a cue from theater. Presently, I move onto the driveway and work there. 

Andy, you might have access to a design like Schwarz' Roman bench. I've always wondered what churches did with their old bench pews. Work on top, or slide around the sides. If I can move, nerve pinching is reduced-redistributed, but still must take a break periodically. Sitting over work is definitely not ideal, but I see it in my own future. I think David Barron does a lot of sitting--he hints.

Derek Cohen mentioned a rework fix--he may have a "how-to" on his site--for lowering the angle of Veritas totes. But if you don't own any, the problem is fixed. I have one Veritas plane, but don't think I have enough nerve to chance ruining a tote. I would never do it without a replacement tote.

[Anji12305]

Bob Van Dyke builds his own workbenches for the Connecticut Valley woodworking school using layered MDF tops. They're dead flat, durable and no more slick than my hardwood benches.

I'm a believer in having two benches at the same height, rather than one large bench.

http://www.startwoodworking.com/post/bui...-workbench

[ez-duzit]

...I don't think Ez duzit is showing a hobby shop...

No, this is an actual, working, 1-man shop.

For a hobbyist, or just to show off, someone might want to go for one of those fancy workbenches, perhaps as a project to fill their time.
But if you need a real bench, to actually work on, don't screw around. That bench was built in a few hours and started making money the same day.

There is a wonderful book entitled simply "The Workbench Book" that might bring inspiration.

[MattP]

One thing I always chase is the oblique light angle that catches finish defects. A lot of finish ends up as dust.

This was my exact impetus for carrying around the 300 watts of lighting. I've been doing a lot of furniture refinishing, and as I was doing a french polish I was using it to give me that oblique light. It's a three light reading lamp (like $10 at Wal Mart) on a 5' plastic pole, and I was just grabbing it and leaning it this way and that to check my finish. It was awfully useful, so it stayed in the shop, and now I don't know how I ever lived without it in there. When I moved into this house, the garage had 12 overhead fluorescent light fixtures. So between them and my reading light, it's pretty much as bright as an operating room in the garage.  

[Admiral]

This was my exact impetus for carrying around the 300 watts of lighting. I've been doing a lot of furniture refinishing, and as I was doing a french polish I was using it to give me that oblique light. It's a three light reading lamp (like $10 at Wal Mart) on a 5' plastic pole, and I was just grabbing it and leaning it this way and that to check my finish. It was awfully useful, so it stayed in the shop, and now I don't know how I ever lived without it in there. When I moved into this house, the garage had 12 overhead fluorescent light fixtures. So between them and my reading light, it's pretty much as bright as an operating room in the garage.  

What I find useful for task lighting is my modification of a heavy base microphone stand I picked up at the flea market for $5, which I modified with a "T" bar at the top to mount three of these lamps.  Very much adjustable to any angle, portable, stable, and works for me.  The Ikea "Tertial" version of these lamps, at $9 a true bargain, well made, but you have to get them at a store, no online ordering for some reason.  http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/20370383/