Woodgears.ca power feeder

[JGrout]

Matthias is well-aware of the dangers of kickback, here are just a couple of his videos on the subject:





As you can see, there isn't much force until that wood rides the top of the teeth.

This is all common sense and well documented, I'm surprised I'm arguing about it with an engineer.

OMG 

you are depending on some flake who posted a couple of videos with no safety features installed and on top of that using pushsticks in a fashion that is assured of causing a dangerous kickback. 

That is just another example of really bad video posted on the internet that shows and proves nothing except the poster is as clueless as you are bout basic safety. 

the second one was even worse and it is a good thing that saw is badly underpowered  he could have really caused a bad result and was lucky he did not.

you need to stop believing everything posted by fringe flakes 

it is embarrassing

[Phil Thien]

OMG 

you are depending on some flake who posted a couple of videos with no safety features installed and on top of that using pushsticks in a fashion that is assured of causing a dangerous kickback. 

That is just another example of really bad video posted on the internet that shows and proves nothing except the poster is as clueless as you are bout basic safety. 

the second one was even worse and it is a good thing that saw is badly underpowered  he could have really caused a bad result and was lucky he did not.

you need to stop believing everything posted by fringe flakes 

it is embarrassing

All you've got is insults, no real insight.

[Phil Thien]

To anyone else, simply watch the video and note how much time he spends with his hands near the blade and body in front of the stock and then ask yourself how long that might be if he were hand-feeding the stock instead.

Thank you.

JGrout can kick and scream and insist the device is unsafe, but he has nothing to back that up other than his say-so.

[6270_Productions]

Once again, that video tells the entire story, the story of a man standing there, hands at his sides, watching the work be done.

Anything that keeps your hands and body away = good thing.

Even if kickback were to occur, the chances of the operator being safely out of the range of fire would be substantially greater with the feeder, than without.

You guys can't argue that, you keep coming up with this "it isn't safe because I say so, trust me" appeal to authority nonsense.

Even John is smart enough to avoid that argument now, he is arguing what constitutes kickback, LOL.

That was exactly my point and the reason for posting the times on the video.  I wanted the folks that had not watched the video a chance to observe - with their own eyes - certain times to focus on.

The device allows you to stand clear of any potential kick back and keep your hands away from the blade.  He does it in the video at the times I posted.

Now, if we just had an accurate definition of "flake".  

[Phil Thien]

That was exactly my point and the reason for posting the times on the video.  I wanted the folks that had not watched the video a chance to observe - with their own eyes - certain times to focus on.

The device allows you to stand clear of any potential kick back and keep your hands away from the blade.  He does it in the video at the times I posted.

Now, if we just had an accurate definition of "flake".  

LOL, I read you loud and clear.

[JGrout]

That was exactly my point and the reason for posting the times on the video.  I wanted the folks that had not watched the video a chance to observe - with their own eyes - certain times to focus on.

The device allows you to stand clear of any potential kick back and keep your hands away from the blade.  He does it in the video at the times I posted.

Now, if we just had an accurate definition of "flake".  

Again when I think of all the dangerous items out there that will hurt or maim This one is at the top of the list

you are ignoring every single point about why this is so unsafe. 

you have zero kickback protection, no ability to stop the feed should something go wrong  a very undersized and inadequate axle to drive a very undersized and too hard drive wheel 

For anyone to side against the facts that this is not safe is well just not very wise. 

This is  NOT a good idea never will be 

to say different is a recipe for eventual and catastrophic failure

[Phil Thien]

Again when I think of all the dangerous items out there that will hurt or maim This one is at the top of the list

you are ignoring every single point about why this is so unsafe. 

you have zero kickback protection, no ability to stop the feed should something go wrong  a very undersized and inadequate axle to drive a very undersized and too hard drive wheel 

For anyone to side against the facts that this is not safe is well just not very wise. 

This is  NOT a good idea never will be 

to say different is a recipe for eventual and catastrophic failure

It is the top of the blade/teeth that impart speed and power to the board.  The rear of the blade and front of the blade are imparting upward and downward forces, respectively.

Provided we can keep the board from lifting, we can assure any kickback will be marginalized, because the board never has a chance to ride over the top of the blade.

Of course, the blade should be adjusted properly.  We don't want to be onion skinning the board, but that is the case no matter what safety devices you're using.

In terms of your other objections like the steel bar thickness being inadequate, just making rough comparisons to devices like the Board Buddies (been around a long while) doesn't really bear that out.

And again, this is only a prototype, he was testing a concept.

[jteneyck]

It is the top of the blade/teeth that impart speed and power to the board.  The rear of the blade and front of the blade are imparting upward and downward forces, respectively.

Provided we can keep the board from lifting, we can assure any kickback will be marginalized, because the board never has a chance to ride over the top of the blade.

Of course, the blade should be adjusted properly.  We don't want to be onion skinning the board, but that is the case no matter what safety devices you're using.

In terms of your other objections like the steel bar thickness being inadequate, just making rough comparisons to devices like the Board Buddies (been around a long while) doesn't really bear that out.

And again, this is only a prototype, he was testing a concept.

You are 100% wrong about kick back only being able to occur if the board goes over the top of the teeth.  The teeth at the front and back impart both an X and Y velocity component when viewed from side.  The kick back may not be as forceful as the maximum that occurs going over the top, but it can be pretty bad, as the occasions I've had personal experience with proved.  And yes, the blade was set properly with about one tooth out the top of the board.  In fact, a properly set blade actually causes a higher X velocity component as far as kickback goes compared to one set with more of the blade exposed. 

This whole discussion has been safety related.  Ignoring the most basic safety features in favor of a prototype which clearly has issues, and promoting it as an improvement because your hands don't have to come near the blade makes no sense.  The splitter/riving knife and top guard are proven safety devices.  What Wendell shows may have merit if further developed and incorporated into an already safe set-up.  As is, it's a step backwards.  In any case, you should never have your hands near the blade anyway.  If you do, you aren't using push sticks or proper technique.  Simple as that.  The purpose of a power feeder isn't to keep your hands away from the blade.  Its purpose is to propel the wood through the cutter at constant speed and with constant force against the table and fence so that the cut quality is improved over what can be achieved by hand feeding.  

John

[JGrout]

In terms of your other objections like the steel bar thickness being inadequate, just making rough comparisons to devices like the Board Buddies (been around a long while) doesn't really bear that out.

Of course not  well at least until you add 10-12" to the axle. 

I cannot bend a 1" axle in my hands I absolutely cannot do that. 

But I can bend a 12" long round bar up to gosh 3/8" with a little effort.

now you are ignoring physics to promote this. 

Stop

[Phil Thien]

You are 100% wrong about kick back only being able to occur if the board goes over the top of the teeth.  The teeth at the front and back impart both an X and Y velocity component when viewed from side.  The kick back may not be as forceful as the maximum that occurs going over the top, but it can be pretty bad, as the occasions I've had personal experience with proved.  And yes, the blade was set properly with about one tooth out the top of the board.  In fact, a properly set blade actually causes a higher X velocity component as far as kickback goes compared to one set with more of the blade exposed. 

This whole discussion has been safety related.  Ignoring the most basic safety features in favor of a prototype which clearly has issues, and promoting it as an improvement because your hands don't have to come near the blade makes no sense.  The splitter/riving knife and top guard are proven safety devices.  What Wendell shows may have merit if further developed and incorporated into an already safe set-up.  As is, it's a step backwards.  In any case, you should never have your hands near the blade anyway.  If you do, you aren't using push sticks or proper technique.  Simple as that.  The purpose of a power feeder isn't to keep your hands away from the blade.  Its purpose is to propel the wood through the cutter at constant speed and with constant force against the table and fence so that the cut quality is improved over what can be achieved by hand feeding.  

John

I did not say kickback won't occur, but that it will be marginalized because the wood didn't see the top of the blade.  Marginalized was my exact word.  It looks like you now agree w/ me.

In terms of your defining the purpose of the feeder to be exclusively one of finish quality, well, I don't know what to do with you.  You're taking these obtuse positions when a little googling will lead to an abundance of evidence that power feeders are often used to increase safety.  OSHA likes them, and OSHA doesn't care about your finish quality, only your fingers.