New to woodworking - table saw advice

[nmazzino]

Hello all,

I am just getting into woodworking. For the last year I have done a good amount of milling oak trees into lumber. 

Now, I am trying to get a wood shop. I have built a few small tables but nothing to much yet. I have basic tools such a miter saw, belt sander, jigsaw, and a few other small tools. 

I am looking to purchase my first table saw and could use some advise. I have been doing some research and there is so much out there to pick from. 

My budget is around 1,200$. I will be doing a lot of thicker hardwood cuts, sometimes on boards that are slightly warped. I have 220V power in my garage as well. 

Any recommendations are greatly appreciated!

[fredhargis]

The advice you will get will be all over the map, but my first recommendation would be to watch for a used Unisaw or PM. If you really want new and can add jst a little to your budget, I'd go with the Grizzly 1023.

[Tapper]

The advice you will get will be all over the map, but my first recommendation would be to watch for a used Unisaw or PM. If you really want new and can add jst a little to your budget, I'd go with the Grizzly 1023.

Excellent recommendations from Fred! 
 The only thing I might add are a couple of other brands to the used market saws, namely General and Jet. Finding good used cabinet saws requires diligence, perseverance and patience. They are out there, you just have to put in the time to find them on Craigslist, Ebay, local ads, etc. 

The Griz 1023 is a great saw at a great price, with a proven track record from a reputable company - you can't go wrong with this saw. Just look at the reviews; 45 with a five star rating. Many members here have one or have had one in the past with almost all positive experiences. I recommend that you make safety a priority. Either go online and look at tablesaw safety videos or try to find some local training. Tablesaws are wonderful woodworking tools, but demand attention and respect always.

Since you mentioned "warped" boards (we've all dealt with them) you might want to keep an eye out for a good used jointer; they are out there too. Another tool that that is indispensable eventually in a WW workshop. Entry level is generally a 6" wide bed, but with these tools, the wider the better. Same brands on these as on the tablesaws.

Good luck!

Doug

[Hank Knight]

Since you mentioned "warped" boards (we've all dealt with them) you might want to keep an eye out for a good used jointer; they are out there too.
Good luck!

Doug

I agree with Doug, look for a jointer if you are working warped lumber. Cutting warped boards on a table saw can be seriously dangerous. A good bandsaw would be safer than a table saw, but they're not terribly safe either with warped lumber.

[nmazzino]

Thank you everyone for the input.

For the warped lumber to get a flush side I have been getting a square line and cutting with a circular saw then running on a friends very old full cast iron craftsman table saw. It was not ideal so I probably will not be doing that anymore until I get a proper set up.

I have been looking for a few weeks used around my area and unfortunately have not been able to find anything I have been happy with for the price. Most everything for sale is very low quality.

Does anybody have any experience with Shopsmith Mark V?

[TDKPE]

Does anybody have any experience with Shopsmith Mark V?

When looking for or at used cabinet saws, be very sure it's single-phase, and see it run.  Dealing with three-phase and converters/inverters is not something you want to bother with at this point.

As to the Shopsmith - pass.  

[AZ Engineer]

Welcome to Woodworking
   I started with an old 1940s Sears table saw and 1950s Sears Jointer and I used surfaced lumber thicknessed to 3/4".  The problem was the most lumber is warped and twisted to some degree so I needed tons of clamps to coerce boards into alignment for glue ups and I spent a ton of time with a belt sander.  (This was over 30 years ago).  Once I saved enough money for a planer my world changed.

I love working with rough sawn wood, in fact I only buy rough sawn wood.  Getting the parts flat and straight is key to quality work.  Here is the process I use;
1) Cut oversize each part you need from rough sawn lumber
2) Flatten one side, I use a jointer
3) Use a planer to get the board to the needed thickness, being careful to remove equal amounts from each side, (account for what you removed in step 2).  You can also do this with a sled for the planer and a lot of patience.
4) Use the jointer to make one edge straight, you can do this with a sled on the table saw if you don't have a jointer
5) Rip the part to the needed width on the table saw
6) Cut one end square
7) Cut the other end to the correct length.

When you do this you get nice flat and square parts.  By doing this and starting with rough sawn wood, usually there is enough thickness when you start to joint and plane out all the warp and twist.

This means longer term you will really need a table saw, a thicknesser or planer, and a jointer.  IMHO the saw is the heart of the shop, but without a planer you are kind of stuck.   I am a big advocate of buying used old tools.  Table saws, jointers, and planers are pretty simple and old american tools are adjustable.  As long as nothing is broken, you can replace bearings, realign the tool and you are in business.  

Onto the table saw, I would look for an old used Unisaw or Powermatic but I would only buy one with a Biesemeyer Fence.  Repeatability the fence and the fence's ability to stay square to the blade are key and the Biesemeyer is bulletproof.  Depending on where you live and the economy old cabinet saws sell for $500-1500. I just looked on Craigslist here in the Phoenix area there are only two Unisaws listed both too high, and this gem.  https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/tls/d...72518.html.  Old Boise Crane cabinet saw with a Biesemeyer fence.  Freshly painted with a new laminate extension, probably well loved by the owner.  I'd jump on a saw like that.  I'd then use what's left to get planer and as soon as possible a jointer.  You can get a 6" jointer WAY cheaper than an 8" or 12".  I made a ton of furniture in the past with a 6" jointer.  You just have to use smaller boards and glue them up.  More stable panels when you do it that way anyway.

Lastly, this is an amazing book.
"Cabinet Making and Millwork" by John L. Feirer

[nmazzino]

Welcome to Woodworking
   I started with an old 1940s Sears table saw and 1950s Sears Jointer and I used surfaced lumber thicknessed to 3/4".  The problem was the most lumber is warped and twisted to some degree so I needed tons of clamps to coerce boards into alignment for glue ups and I spent a ton of time with a belt sander.  (This was over 30 years ago).  Once I saved enough money for a planer my world changed.

I love working with rough sawn wood, in fact I only buy rough sawn wood.  Getting the parts flat and straight is key to quality work.  Here is the process I use;
1) Cut oversize each part you need from rough sawn lumber
2) Flatten one side, I use a jointer
3) Use a planer to get the board to the needed thickness, being careful to remove equal amounts from each side, (account for what you removed in step 2).  You can also do this with a sled for the planer and a lot of patience.
4) Use the jointer to make one edge straight, you can do this with a sled on the table saw if you don't have a jointer
5) Rip the part to the needed width on the table saw
6) Cut one end square
7) Cut the other end to the correct length.

When you do this you get nice flat and square parts.  By doing this and starting with rough sawn wood, usually there is enough thickness when you start to joint and plane out all the warp and twist.

This means longer term you will really need a table saw, a thicknesser or planer, and a jointer.  IMHO the saw is the heart of the shop, but without a planer you are kind of stuck.   I am a big advocate of buying used old tools.  Table saws, jointers, and planers are pretty simple and old american tools are adjustable.  As long as nothing is broken, you can replace bearings, realign the tool and you are in business.  

Onto the table saw, I would look for an old used Unisaw or Powermatic but I would only buy one with a Biesemeyer Fence.  Repeatability the fence and the fence's ability to stay square to the blade are key and the Biesemeyer is bulletproof.  Depending on where you live and the economy old cabinet saws sell for $500-1500. I just looked on Craigslist here in the Phoenix area there are only two Unisaws listed both too high, and this gem.  https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/tls/d...72518.html.  Old Boise Crane cabinet saw with a Biesemeyer fence.  Freshly painted with a new laminate extension, probably well loved by the owner.  I'd jump on a saw like that.  I'd then use what's left to get planer and as soon as possible a jointer.  You can get a 6" jointer WAY cheaper than an 8" or 12".  I made a ton of furniture in the past with a 6" jointer.  You just have to use smaller boards and glue them up.  More stable panels when you do it that way anyway.

Lastly, this is an amazing book.
"Cabinet Making and Millwork" by John L. Feirer

Thank you much for the advice this is very helpful. 

This was my first time milling my own lumber. Apparently I did not have enough weight on some of the boards and they are very twisted. I took them to a local woodworking place and they were able to plane and joint 12/40 planks. The planks are white oak and around 20" wide and anywhere from 36-55" long. i just made a table out of them and cut the warped blank in 2" strips then used an electric hand planer on it for a bit. I used those pieces for the legs. It was not the best, but was not terrible. 

What size/type planer do you use for your rough boards? Anything over 14" is extremely expensive. Or do you cut the lumber into smaller strips, plane, then reglue? Sorry I am still very new and trying to learn as much as possible. 

I am in Cleveland, Ohio and have been looking for a few weeks not on Craigslist as well as some other forums like OfferUp and LetGo. So far nothing has stuck out as being a good deal for the quality. Either it is a 150$ old craftsman or a 3,000 240V 3 phase monster saw. I will continue to look. I am open to buying new too but can get alot more saw for my money used. The Boise Crane one looks like a great saw for the price, I wish it was closer. 

Do you recommend a planer/jointer combo? I was looking at a Jet 10" combo one.

[®smpr_fi_mac®]

There aren't many planers under 12" wide. That's wide enough for most hobbyist wood workers.

Lots of cheap portables in that range. A few relatively inexpensive older, non-portable pieces in that range. Like my 1958 12" Powermatic Model 100 that I picked up for a few hundred bucks.

www.owwm.org

Go visit there; it's a forum where we help each other acquire, fix, rebuild, and maintain quality cast iron stuff.

[AZ Engineer]

Thank you much for the advice this is very helpful. 

This was my first time milling my own lumber. Apparently I did not have enough weight on some of the boards and they are very twisted. I took them to a local woodworking place and they were able to plane and joint 12/40 planks. The planks are white oak and around 20" wide and anywhere from 36-55" long. i just made a table out of them and cut the warped blank in 2" strips then used an electric hand planer on it for a bit. I used those pieces for the legs. It was not the best, but was not terrible. 

What size/type planer do you use for your rough boards? Anything over 14" is extremely expensive. Or do you cut the lumber into smaller strips, plane, then reglue? Sorry I am still very new and trying to learn as much as possible. 

I am in Cleveland, Ohio and have been looking for a few weeks not on Craigslist as well as some other forums like OfferUp and LetGo. So far nothing has stuck out as being a good deal for the quality. Either it is a 150$ old craftsman or a 3,000 240V 3 phase monster saw. I will continue to look. I am open to buying new too but can get alot more saw for my money used. The Boise Crane one looks like a great saw for the price, I wish it was closer. 

Do you recommend a planer/jointer combo? I was looking at a Jet 10" combo one.

Just did a quick search near you and there are 2 single phase Unisaws that have potential, neither with a Biesemeyer fence but you can find one of those and add it for maybe $250.

My first planer is the one I have today, a 12" Powermatic Model 100.  I started with a 6" jointer, then an 8", and now a 12".  As you learn more about wood and how and why it warps and twists your work will improve.  Lots of people use wide planks but I find it rare that wide but thin planks will stay flat as humidity changes through the seasons.  I almost always use 8" wide or narrower pieces and glue them up.  The book I mentioned about suggests parts never be more than a small multiple of the thickness, meaning that if you have 3/4" thick boards, no individual piece should be wider than 6X the thickness.  I don't recall the exact multiple.  You then look at the grain patterns on the end of each board and alternate the grain pattern to make the most stable wide glue up.  There is another excellent book, "Understanding Wood".  Highly recommend that too.