Sanding/dust control

[Cooler]

Even with the down draft I would leave the collection bag on the sander.

[Hank Knight]

The volume of the shop back is irrelevant as I will be running a dust collector at the same time, so will be wearing ear protection.  The only time I do not wear ear protection is when I make a quick cut on the chopsaw, and regret it.  My previous job was in a loud environment and I have always been protective with my hearing.  Now more so that my vision is becoming less than perfect.

Do those who use a downdraft table or scoop for dust collection, not also use a hose attached to the back of the sanding device also?  

The one time I attached my current vacuum to my 6" ryobi without anything else to collect dust, it was night and day in terms of shop cleanliness.  It seems to me even with a downdraft table my ROS would spit dust out it's exhaust further than the downdraft would catch.  I feel attaching a hose to the back of the ROS would be easier if it was connected to a vacuum as opposed to piping from the dust collector.

As of now I am on the fence between keeping my new Ridgid because it gets good reviews and it is super compact, I like the footprint and portability.

Then I consider the Fein.  By the time I factor in the accessory kit for the Ridgid I am only $100 more for the Fein.

The "volume" of your shop vac ma be irrelevant if you are referring to the SOUND volume, but the volume of AIR it moves is very relevant. Vacs move a relative small volume of air at high velocities. They are good for collecting dust a chips if you can focus the suction close to and directly at the source. Many ROSs have built in dust collection are designed to be used with small vac hoses - Bosch, Fein and Festool are examples. Unless you have this kind of feature on your sanders, a vac will be relatively inefficient at collecting dust dispersed in the air. I don't think vacs work particularly well with downdraft tables because the collection holes that are supposed capture the dust are scattered over a pretty wide area. Cyclones, on the other hand, move large volumes of air. They are much more effective at capturing dust that is dispersed over a wider area, especially the very fine dust which is the most dangerous to your health. You indicated that you are installing, or have, a cyclone. I suggest you look at ways to use it for your sanding dust issue. You will like the results better than your shop vac and you will have a much healthier shop environment.

[Pondracer]

For that type of sanding I use a Festool with an RO150.  I've had it for years, its ridiculously efficient.  I can rub my hand across the surface after a pass and there is barely any dust there, let alone in the air.

[WilliamHodge]

The toolbox vac is still in the box and can be returned.  Should I consider a better shop vac (Fein or Festool) for a better dust control system?

I collect dust out of a Dewalt random orbital sander with a cheap Rigid shop vac, the Screamer Plus Model. The vacuum sits under a shed roof on a barrel, outside the shop. It has a barrel cyclone and a cloth filter over the paper filter, so the paper filters last for years. The current shop vac is several years old. Snow doesn't seem to harm it. I do not hear the vacuum running. I also have no neighbors.

The dust collection is great. I use a Bosch 1" hose from the sander to the 2 1/2" x 30' vacuum hose. I hang the Bosch hose from a spring loaded tool balancer, so that the weight of the hose doesn't tilt the sander. I sometimes sand for hours at a time, so ergonomics are important.

Collecting the dust at the source with less air, and more force, seems to work best with a hand held sander. As with any tool, catching the dust while it is in a spray coming off the source is most effective. Allowing dust to disperse, then gathering it up again, requires collecting and cleaning larger amounts of air.

[Cooler]

The "volume" of your shop vac ma be irrelevant if you are referring to the SOUND volume, but the volume of AIR it moves is very relevant. Vacs move a relative small volume of air at high velocities. They are good for collecting dust a chips if you can focus the suction close to and directly at the source. Many ROSs have built in dust collection are designed to be used with small vac hoses - Bosch, Fein and Festool are examples. Unless you have this kind of feature on your sanders, a vac will be relatively inefficient at collecting dust dispersed in the air. I don't think vacs work particularly well with downdraft tables because the collection holes that are supposed capture the dust are scattered over a pretty wide area. Cyclones, on the other hand, move large volumes of air. They are much more effective at capturing dust that is dispersed over a wider area, especially the very fine dust which is the most dangerous to your health. You indicated that you are installing, or have, a cyclone. I suggest you look at ways to use it for your sanding dust issue. You will like the results better than your shop vac and you will have a much healthier shop environment.

Thanks for clearing that up.  When I spoke of "volume", I was referring to the volume of air, not sound.  I've taken to use "loudness" as a replacement for "volume" 'when speaking of sound.  

For the down draft table a large volume of air is required, and most vacuums don't supply enough for it to be effective.  For the exhaust port of a sander a vacuum would probably be more effective.

A loud shop vac would not be my first choice for a down draft table.

[photobug]

For that type of sanding I use a Festool with an RO150.  I've had it for years, its ridiculously efficient.  I can rub my hand across the surface after a pass and there is barely any dust there, let alone in the air.

Do you have the RO150 and one of their vacuums or just the sander?  I am in some way trying to rationalize the purchase of this setup, but it just feels wrong to have the most expensive tool in my shop being my ROS.  Then once that door is open I might have to buy the other Festool tools to go with the vacuum.

I collect dust out of a Dewalt random orbital sander with a cheap Rigid shop vac, the Screamer Plus Model. The vacuum sits under a shed roof on a barrel, outside the shop. It has a barrel cyclone and a cloth filter over the paper filter, so the paper filters last for years. The current shop vac is several years old. Snow doesn't seem to harm it. I do not hear the vacuum running. I also have no neighbors.

So you use a shop vac as an external dust collector?  Do you use it for things other than sanding?  I think my current model is the Rigid Screamer also.  I don't mind the sound i just hate it's footprint.  I never thought there was any option but to have to wear ear protection and shout over a vacuum.

I wish I had no neighbors.  I have neighbors 25 feet on either side of me and my home is 40 feet from a bike path with a creek in my backyard.  I get away with setting up shop in my driveway when the weather allows but if I was caught expelling my dust directly outside, I am sure I would get in trouble.  I am planning on building an extension behind the garage for storage this summer and would love to get the dust collector out of the garage but once again if I got caught.....

My next home will be out in the country with no neighbors in sight or within earshot.

[TDKPE]

For the down draft table a large volume of air is required, and most vacuums don't supply enough for it to be effective.  For the exhaust port of a sander a vacuum would probably be more effective.

Agree on both points.  A sander only has little holes, and not many of them, so to move air at any reasonable rate through that restrictive maze, you need a lot of suction (static pressure), which is what vacuums specialize in.  Fein and Festool vacs show SP numbers approaching 100 inch (water gauge) range.  High air speed through small spaces is precisely what vacuums are designed for, with large diameter (relatively) but narrow impellers and high rotation speed. 

High volume dust collectors typically run in the 10-18" WG range (Grizzly's 10 hp cyclone tops out at 16.8" WG), with higher max static pressure at higher motor hp usually due to the impeller being of a larger diameter than lower hp units, but that also depends on the impeller design.  They wouldn't move much air through something with huge flow restriction like a sander.

Downdraft table is another story, and it behooves anyone making one to put a lot of holes in the top, and maybe even take flow readings and open the holes (and/or radius or countersink the inlet edges of those holes) to maximize the total air flow.

Just some random thoughts, as I'm bored at work.  Again.  

[WilliamHodge]

So you use a shop vac as an external dust collector?  Do you use it for things other than sanding?  I think my current model is the Rigid Screamer also.  I don't mind the sound i just hate it's footprint.  I never thought there was any option but to have to wear ear protection and shout over a vacuum.

I also have a 2 or 3 hp blower with a 6" inlet, and a bigger blower with an 11" inlet. I use the shop vac hooked up to a crevice tool mounted over the blade a rip saw, between the stock feeder wheels. I also hook it up to routers, power planes, the little dust port on a miter saw, and a spray catcher on a radial arm saw. Also, I never sweep, I use a vacuum.

Perhaps you could build a sound proof shed. I have a muffler on the central vac in the house. Homeowner's Associations probably don't like random sheds.

[photobug]

Here is today's dust mitigation solution.  It was 40 degrees out today and blowing hard.  I just let the wind take the dust away.  Although I would prefer it colder, sunny and no wind.  Until my dust collector is setup I will be doing my sanding outside.  My Dust Deputy XL arrived today so i am one step closer.

[photobug]

I also have a 2 or 3 hp blower with a 6" inlet, and a bigger blower with an 11" inlet. I use the shop vac hooked up to a crevice tool mounted over the blade a rip saw, between the stock feeder wheels. I also hook it up to routers, power planes, the little dust port on a miter saw, and a spray catcher on a radial arm saw. Also, I never sweep, I use a vacuum.

Perhaps you could build a sound proof shed. I have a muffler on the central vac in the house. Homeowner's Associations probably don't like random sheds.

I have a garage extension/shed  planned as an addition for this summer.  I would really like to get the dust collection into there.  My intention for this is to store my bikes, camping gear, construction tools and my homebrewing rig in this new storage.  Getting them out of the garage will open up much more space for wood working equipment in the garage. The one stumbling block is getting access to the dust collector to remove the sawdust.  It might be blocked by the Sauna I also want in this shed.