Hand-cut dovetail issues

[bandit571]

I try to...
 

   
But this was just to build a few drawers...

[Tony Z]

I try to...
 

But this was just to build a few drawers...

The right way.....is the way that works for you! It appears the way you do them, is the way Roy Underhill also does them.

They also look good!

[rwe2156]

Impossible to say without a video.  I will say the saw can follow the grain if you're using too much pressure. Saws with really thin plates / soft wood are more susceptible to this.

Beyond that, check your ergonomics: stance, body position, saw position, etc.

BTW, I learned hand cut dt's from Frank Klausz.  He is a "pins first" man.

One advantage to tails first is you can cut two or more boards at once, and more accurately, too.

Or, it may be a matter of "get your mind right".

[TraditionalToolworks]

One advantage to tails first is you can cut two or more boards at once, and more accurately, too.

Another is that you can use the same procedure for doing half blind dovetails.

How do you do your half blind dovetails?

Alan

[Handplanesandmore]

I try to...
 

But this was just to build a few drawers...

That ain't fair. You took the joint against such a background to make it look better than it really is

 

Simon

[bandit571]

Which one?
  This one here is a dry fit...no glue added...nor sawdust...

   
Have been known to do half blind ones...
 

   
Takes a bit longer....but nice IF I have just one drawer to do..

   
And not 3 or 5 drawers to do...leave the pencil lines?

   
Sometimes....as long as it is on the waste side of a line that I am cutting on....

[Derek Cohen]

Mike,

Those look great, not sure what the blue tape is about, never used that...how does that help you stick to your line?

For me, I don't care if someone cuts with the saw between their legs, if they can hold the line that is what counts.
Can you explain this blue tape? I'd like to understand it. The results look dandy.

One thing I find good to practice is to cut the tails at random, you don't need to do any layout, but then get a clean mark onto your pin board.

You will find you can move the angles around, even on two sides of a single tail, but that if you mark out pin from it, and you cut it correctly, you will have a great looking and tight joint. I use the plane trick that Cosman shows, I think it applies pressure to help keep the tail board still and not move.

One not need worry about how long it takes you, what matters is that you do it correctly and continue to practice it correctly so that you will get better at doing it correctly.


Alan

Alan, the blue tape trick for dovetails is something I came up with about 8 or so years ago. It has improved a little over time, and really made it easier to mark and saw accurately (especially for ageing eyes, like mine).

Here are two recent articles:

Half bind dovetails:  http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/H...eTape.html



Through dovetails:  http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/T...ails3.html



And as a replacement for Cosman's (actually Alan Peter's ) #140 trick, try it with blue tape ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/T...sDead.html



Imagine doing 24 of these




They are all on a curved/bow-fronted chest. It would not have been as easy without the blue tape to ensure I sawed to the correct marks!



Regards from Perth

Derek

[TraditionalToolworks]

Alan, the blue tape trick for dovetails is something I came up with about 8 or so years ago. It has improved a little over time, and really made it easier to mark and saw accurately (especially for ageing eyes, like mine).

Derek,

Hmmm, it looks interesting, but I'm not sure I'm ready to declare the #140 trick is dead, I have been doing them that way when I need to, just out of habit. I do pretty much follow how Cosman teaches, and yes, several of his tricks come from Peters. My impression of Peters has always been that he was a creative and great woodworker, but he wasn't near the speaker that Cosman is, and Cosman not only explain the procedures better than Peters did, but can talk you through as he works it...The videos of Peters I've watched he's kind of hard to understand because he has a British accent and he speaks very quietly. Cosman, OTOH, is a great teacher and he style works for me. The one thing about Cosman's videos I like is he often shows how he thinks through a problem, how he approaches it and works through the procedures. That was really valuable for me in the past.

They are all on a curved/bow-fronted chest. It would not have been as easy without the blue tape to ensure I sawed to the correct marks!

I don't completely understand why, but that's ok as I probably won't be using it. Not that it won't work, I'm sure it works fine, I just try to limit things in the shop and keep it simple where I can. I don't like any type of sharpening jigs if I can help it, or accessories if I can work around another way not using them. But there are a lot of people that buy those types of solutions, so there is a big market in solutions to problems that don't exist.

I do use a similar Stanley utility knife like that and round the nose, in fact I think Cosman showed that at some point. Great marking knife. I have a couple  blades I got from Johnny Kleso (Rex Mill) long ago, but use the Stanley mostly. I could make my own these days, my metalworking has gotten a lot better than it was. Johnny sold me the first split nuts I got to build my first saws. But your video begs a question. Did you make that marking gauge? I like how big it is. I use a Tite-Mark, I think Drake made it...can't remember...I have some old Stanley market gauges also, they work, the old wooden ones.

You've been a great help over the years, I don't mean to speak down on your blue tape method, just seems like a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist to me. I don't build curved front cabinets too often. I'm lucky to build ones close to square...or that resemble a square...


After I can get my shell onto a foundation, and get the shop setup and have it dried in, I'll be doing all the cabinets in the house, and much of the furniture. Building a house is complicated...


Cheers,
Alan

[TraditionalToolworks]

Yes, that IS my "dovetail" saw.

Nothing wrong with a Disston No. 4, I have cut a number of dovetails with one myself in the past. It's not the saw...I have many saws I can use, including some that are exactly like the saw you're using.

Bandsaw usually, since it was down at this time, I used the old No. 4 again...

Nothing wrong with using a band saw to cut the dovetails. Mike Wenzloff used to do that sometimes when he built cabinets.

Alan

[Derek Cohen]

Alan, I should clarify that the comment on the #140 trick was for you, but the remainder (techniques in cutting dovetails) was for the OP. He was asking for help with his dovetailing. You appear happy with yours. I would not presume to teach you new tricks.

The marking gauge you ask about is made by Veritas, the anniversary model. I have a suspicion that they may go into production again (I purchased a couple several years ago). They are simple and elegant.



I have built many marking gauges, including this wheeled one ...



To answer your question why blue tape was helpful with the drawers in the bow-fronted chest, it is necessary to recognise that the fit on fine dovetails is dependent on both accurate marking out and then sawing/chiseling. My eyesight is ageing and the tape aids in seeing where the lines should be. I try and work to a highish level, and the drawers in question were not run-of-the-mill. Here is a short video to illustrate the angles involved ...



I hope you understand my accent


As much as I prefer not to use aids, there are some, such as the kerfing chisel and angle markers, that make the work easier. I am not a hero. I just build furniture.

Regards from Perth

Derek