Long Term Impact of Trade War on Woodworking Tool Prices

[Teak]

So another thread here https://forums.woodnet.net/showthread.php?tid=7348338 got me thinking how the current US / China trade war would impact the prices on woodworking tools. I own tools from Steel City (Craftsman Zip Code saw, Jointer and 6" drill press) and wonder about availability of replacement parts too.

I am thinking more from an economic angle and don't want this to turn into a political slug fest. Going back to early 2000's a lot of companies started moving their production to China. This resulted in lower tools prices and quality (both perceived and real) but on the upside also made it affordable for a lot of us to setup shop. So now I wonder if we will see more manufacturer's moving back to Taiwan albeit at a higher price or to yet another country in search of lower cost to escape tariffs.

We have also lost a bunch of manufacturers from a decade back including General International, Steel City, Craftsman, (Delta?) etc reducing competition. Then we have TTS Tooltechnic System who acquired SawStop and promptly started increasing prices. I do have a Laguna bandsaw but have not checked to see if Laguna and other bandsaw majors have increased prices.

I guess for the longest time we had some price stability on machine prices but I think between business failures and consolidation we may be headed for rising prices, at least for new machines. Of course we also have many boomers who may decide to downsize so there may be an opportunity for new woodworkers to score good prices on lightly used product. It will be interesting to see how things evolve going forward. I only hope we still have access to spare parts (the one benefit of same machine being sold in different colors).

[packerguy®]

Im not so concerned about getting parts going forward for large manufactures that have been around (Powermatic/Delta/Grizzly, etc.) Now ones that wernt around real long or didn't have a ton of machines, maybe not.

As far as prices, seems to me we have been on a pretty steady climb since 2007 or so without any level off or backtracking at all. Sure the current climate does nothing to stop that trend, but for me what I pay attention to more is what I said last summer. The tarrifs did two things....gave companies to raise prices to cover the tarrifs in the short term so when they go away its a profit injection (Grizz was the only one I see that is transparent and shows you what the tarriff is, and I assume it will fall off when they are pulled back) and second a great opportunity to move more products to Tawian, which IMHO makes much better products, which I have seen as well.

[Cooler]

I think that Harbor Freight has been moving towards more premium line product (Hercules, for example) so that they don't have to compete on price alone.  They are trying to compete on quality and features.  

H-F's entire business model has been about importing from China, and they may be in deep doggy doo-doo.

[RKMBrown©]

Me.. I'm not loyal to Chinese corporations and workers, their tools have been sub par copies. I'd rather have tariffs (taxes) on Chinese goods than personal income taxes on American products via labor taxes.

About time we leveled the playing field here in America and started building good wwing products for America again.

[Teak]

Me.. I'm not loyal to Chinese corporations and workers, their tools have been sub par copies. I'd rather have tariffs (taxes) on Chinese goods than personal income taxes on American products via labor taxes.

About time we leveled the playing field here in America and started building good wwing products for America again.

You will not get any arguments from me as I have the same fundamental position. However, there is a whole bunch of "recent iron" out there which is effectively the woodworking equivalent of abandonware (mainly due to manufacturers closing down). I believe there is an opportunity, that someone much smarter than me 
  needs to explore. I am thinking along the lines of Carter Products for bandsaws. One of the things they focus on is the replacement parts and upgrades for the old Delta bandsaws. I first heard of Carter on these forums years ago when I was exploring buying a bandsaw. At that time they had no website and one had to order a catalog for $5. I did so out of sheer curiosity and was amazed to see all the upgrades one could make to an old Delta bandsaw. 

I think there may be a similar opportunity for table saws, stationary planers, drill presses etc from the recently departed manufacturers. Most of these were similar products with a different coat of paint. You can have a North American Company specializing in upgrades and spares of these products (depending upon the business case) and that is one way of supporting and growing our local industrial base while also ensuring that otherwise usable hardware is not consigned to scrap.

[RKMBrown©]

You will not get any arguments from me as I have the same fundamental position. However, there is a whole bunch of "recent iron" out there which is effectively the woodworking equivalent of abandonware (mainly due to manufacturers closing down). I believe there is an opportunity, that someone much smarter than me 
  needs to explore. I am thinking along the lines of Carter Products for bandsaws. One of the things they focus on is the replacement parts and upgrades for the old Delta bandsaws. I first heard of Carter on these forums years ago when I was exploring buying a bandsaw. At that time they had no website and one had to order a catalog for $5. I did so out of sheer curiosity and was amazed to see all the upgrades one could make to an old Delta bandsaw. 

I think there may be a similar opportunity for table saws, stationary planers, drill presses etc from the recently departed manufacturers. Most of these were similar products with a different coat of paint. You can have a North American Company specializing in upgrades and spares of these products (depending upon the business case) and that is one way of supporting and growing our local industrial base while also ensuring that otherwise usable hardware is not consigned to scrap.

Double hell yes!

[FrankAtl]

You will not get any arguments from me as I have the same fundamental position. However, there is a whole bunch of "recent iron" out there which is effectively the woodworking equivalent of abandonware (mainly due to manufacturers closing down). I believe there is an opportunity, that someone much smarter than me 
  needs to explore. I am thinking along the lines of Carter Products for bandsaws. One of the things they focus on is the replacement parts and upgrades for the old Delta bandsaws. I first heard of Carter on these forums years ago when I was exploring buying a bandsaw. At that time they had no website and one had to order a catalog for $5. I did so out of sheer curiosity and was amazed to see all the upgrades one could make to an old Delta bandsaw. 

I think there may be a similar opportunity for table saws, stationary planers, drill presses etc from the recently departed manufacturers. Most of these were similar products with a different coat of paint. You can have a North American Company specializing in upgrades and spares of these products (depending upon the business case) and that is one way of supporting and growing our local industrial base while also ensuring that otherwise usable hardware is not consigned to scrap.

Interesting point. I'd like to see that too.

[Cooler]

The problem with bringing back these items to be manufactured in the USA again is that much of the infrastructure required to do so has gone.

The number of companies that produce iron castings in the USA is very, very low.  It requires a lot of fuel, and the Chinese don't mind the pollution using coal for this.  I don't think there is enough casting capablitiy in the USA to support a massive influx of machinery building.

Also, once a job is given out to be produced overseas, the space in the factory that once held that manufacturing capability is put to use for other purposes.  So there is not really any factory space for the production to come home to.

And then manufacturers are leary of the longevity of the tariffs. If Trump loses the election or if the economy does a death spiral the tariffs may come off leaving newly USA based manufacturers at a huge disadvantage. 

I am not expecting an increase in machinery building in the USA.  There might be an increase in assembly work, however.

[RKMBrown©]

The problem with bringing back these items to be manufactured in the USA again is that much of the infrastructure required to do so has gone.

The number of companies that produce iron castings in the USA is very, very low.  It requires a lot of fuel, and the Chinese don't mind the pollution using coal for this.  I don't think there is enough casting capablitiy in the USA to support a massive influx of machinery building.

Also, once a job is given out to be produced overseas, the space in the factory that once held that manufacturing capability is put to use for other purposes.  So there is not really any factory space for the production to come home to.

And then manufacturers are leary of the longevity of the tariffs. If Trump loses the election or if the economy does a death spiral the tariffs may come off leaving newly USA based manufacturers at a huge disadvantage. 

I am not expecting an increase in machinery building in the USA.  There might be an increase in assembly work, however.

lol... dude put down the shovel.

[RKMBrown©]

The news about the death of American manufacturing has been greatly exaggerated.

The transition to robotic manufacturing killed off the old labor intensive plants which are closed or retooled.

Yes we did a lot of off shoring. Yes that was, in many most cases, really dumb for America, even if profitable for investors.