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Having a problem tracing a wire, any help would be appreciated.
So, church again, and the stupid electrician they hired. Have a pair of outlets with no power. The wires run through flexible metal conduit. The run is well over 100-ft to the service panel he installed. He ran quite a few wires to the panel (10 in all) and bound them with cable ties every couple feet, so the conduit involved goes in, out, and around the other wires, making it difficult to follow back to the panel. I think I traced the cable back by tying a wire to the cable and pulling it along to follow the cable. If I followed it right then I found the breaker, and it is properly connected, checked for power at the breaker and all is fine, but there is no power at the outlets.
If I followed everything right then all I can think of is that there is a break in the wire somewhere. Any thoughts on how I can determine if I have the right breaker? Unfortunately, he didn't label any of the breakers in the panel. If the outlet and panel were close I would run a wire from the white line to the panel and use a meter to check for a connection, then do the same with the black wire, but over 100-ft is quite a run to do that.
Anyone have any other ideas how to tell if I have the right breaker? Or, to even find the right breaker if I'm wrong?
Mike
I work on the 50-50-90 rule: If there's a 50-50 choice, I'll pick the wrong one 90% of the time! 
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I would check all of the breakers in the panel for voltage. If you find one without voltage, that would most likely be the one.
If that doesn't work, I would kill all breakers then go back to the outlets and start tracing backwards, jumping the white/black wires and ohming connections in other outlets and lighting boxes. Very time consuming.
Be sure the outlets aren't on a wall switch.
That's all I can think of right now.
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(11-14-2019, 10:46 AM)daddo Wrote: I would check all of the breakers in the panel for voltage. If you find one without voltage, that would most likely be the one.
If that doesn't work, I would kill all breakers then go back to the outlets and start tracing backwards, jumping the white/black wires and ohming connections in other outlets and lighting boxes. Very time consuming.
Be sure the outlets aren't on a wall switch.
That's all I can think of right now.
I did check the breakers, all are good, first thing I checked before trying to trace the wires.
Yeah, that was my thought as well, thought I'd ask here for other ideas JIC.
Some are, this one is not, unfortunately.
thanks for the ideas.
Mike
I work on the 50-50-90 rule: If there's a 50-50 choice, I'll pick the wrong one 90% of the time!
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Have you checked the wires at the outlet for voltage? And by that I mean taking loose any wire nuts and then checking the wires, not the device. I have seen where connections are lost under a wire nut, and also where people have plugged wires directly into the jab connectors on an outlet and then those connections fail.
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(11-14-2019, 02:31 PM)jasfrank Wrote: Have you checked the wires at the outlet for voltage? And by that I mean taking loose any wire nuts and then checking the wires, not the device. I have seen where connections are lost under a wire nut, and also where people have plugged wires directly into the jab connectors on an outlet and then those connections fail.
I used an inductive tester against the wires, nada.
Mike
I work on the 50-50-90 rule: If there's a 50-50 choice, I'll pick the wrong one 90% of the time!
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(11-13-2019, 09:37 PM)Scouter Wrote: ......... checked for power at the breaker and all is fine, but there is no power at the outlets.
Does this involve either new construction or remodeling?
Because I've had drywall crews bury a box during construction. Once hidden it's forgotten so the wires within never get connected and all receptacles downstream are dead.
Mike
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11-14-2019, 11:44 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-14-2019, 11:49 PM by JTTHECLOCKMAN.)
If you think you found the breaker, then there is probably other outlets on that circuit. Try to find what outlets are on that circuit and then test from there. If you can identify the last outlet on that circuit maybe it is a GFCI and it is tripped or the connection from that outlet downstream is where the failure is. If GFCI it maybe a bathroom, outside outlet, or kitchen outlet. Do not rule it out. It would be very odd to have one or 2 outlets on one circuit unless it is designated. Hope you identify any outlets you find. Did you take the cover off the outlet?? Many electricians like to write number of circuit either on, in or back of cover of circuit and panel.
Did you check the neutral that went with that hot wire and made sure it was connected properly. I have seen wires placed under screws and it catches the insulation and does not make good contact. That would be my first point to look at other than checking for voltage at all breakers.
John T.
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11-16-2019, 01:11 AM
(This post was last modified: 11-16-2019, 01:14 AM by Bob10.)
I have a fluke toner and it works great for tracing wires lost or hidden. The wire you are tracing has to be powered down or the toner burns up. So if you start at the dead end of your circuit the toner will chase it until the dead end. Now I know you have chased things around and I have seen questions about switches but no mention of GFIs which can be a nightmare in a run. I have a few houses that have circuits that run from an upstairs bath to a backyard or garage. I dealt with them by isolating each and everyone and while time consuming it makes figuring out where the problem is for a tenant pretty easy over the phone
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(11-16-2019, 01:11 AM)Bob10 Wrote: I have a fluke toner and it works great for tracing wires lost or hidden. The wire you are tracing has to be powered down or the toner burns up. So if you start at the dead end of your circuit the toner will chase it until the dead end. Now I know you have chased things around and I have seen questions about switches but no mention of GFIs which can be a nightmare in a run. I have a few houses that have circuits that run from an upstairs bath to a backyard or garage. I dealt with them by isolating each and everyone and while time consuming it makes figuring out where the problem is for a tenant pretty easy over the phone
Right above your post Bob.
John T.
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(11-14-2019, 10:46 AM)daddo Wrote: I would check all of the breakers in the panel for voltage. If you find one without voltage, that would most likely be the one.
If that doesn't work, I would kill all breakers then go back to the outlets and start tracing backwards, jumping the white/black wires and ohming connections in other outlets and lighting boxes. Very time consuming.
Be sure the outlets aren't on a wall switch.
That's all I can think of right now.
I had to laugh when I read your post. Wife calls me upstairs ,TV doesn't work. I make sure it is plugged in, check receptacle with a small lamp. No electric to the outlet. Go downstairs and into garage to check the breakers, they look okay. I flip three or four breakers back and forth to make sure. I had trouble deciphering the door panel to see which breaker to check so I flipped several to make sure. Go upstairs, still no electric to this receptacle. Go into the shop, bring a 25'-0" cord with me. Plug cord into a receptacle in the bathroom that does work and into the TV. TV works, Wanted to make sure the receptacle was the only culprit. I asked my wife when she noticed that the electric was off. Before she could answer I'm staring at a switch on the wall that is behind the TV. Unplug cord, plug TV back to receptacle and turn on the switch, now we have electric.
Wife said she was dusting behind the TV and may have hit the switch. Now all I had to do was reset the clocks that went off when I flipped breakers.
I got a better one when the kitchen faucets did not work, I'll leave that for the plumbing forum.
mike
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