Another wiring question

[srv52761]

<p>

Ok. So a gfic outlet&nbsp;is about $20. A 120v gfic breaker is about $40. A 240v gfic breaker is about $110, but now there's only 3 conductors (plus ground) vs. 4 or 6 for two 120v loads and one 240v load. Question is; in the real world will there be nuisance&nbsp;trips as there are with many arc fault circuits? I'm still learning here too.

</p><p><br></p><p>Not sure about nuisance trips, but one drawback is if it does trip then both circuits are down, you don't know which circuit caused the trip and&nbsp;have to do a lot of trial and error to figure it out.</p><p><br></p><p>For this reason some electricians prefer individual point gfci in situations like the OP, outdoors or areas where you could get nuisance trips,&nbsp; so they are quickly identified.</p>

[Mr_Mike]

No comment on the wiring, but what are you doing for a pond pump and how big of a pond? Is this pump for aeration?

I have a 1/4 acre pond and want to put in a fountain for aeration and am researching ideas. What pump to get, how to plumb it? etc.

[MstrCarpenter]

No comment on the wiring, but what are you doing for a pond pump and how big of a pond?  Is this pump for aeration?  

I have a 1/4 acre pond and want to put in a fountain for aeration and am researching ideas.  What pump to get, how to plumb it?  etc.

If you're going to pump water from the pond to the pond, at least run it thru a heat pump. Low cost heat and A.C. with a bonus. You'll have slightly warmer water for swimming in summer, and can ice-skate earlier in winter.


Or you can hang a 1/3-1/2 hp. well pump from a floating ring. You'll need a short "casing" (i.e. 4" sched 20 pipe) to ensure water flows around the motor for cooling. Tom might chime in here, but I think the current will decrease if you restrict the flow.

[fredhargis]

Mr. Mike, our last pond was 3/4 acres, and we moved where the one we have now is 1/2 acre. In both cases I installed aerators and after reading and studying everything I could find I wound up putting in what amounts to oiless pumps that use a diffuser that lays on the bottom of the deepest part of the pond. The ones that float on the surface like the fountains can get clogged with the floating algae crap and are kind of a pain ot clean. The diffuser type doesn't have that problem, and it keeps the water circulating in a way that the temp/oxygen content stays uniform. That's important in case of a heavy spring rain that can wind up killing the fish. The first pump I had was a Gast, and I left that setup at the house when we sold it. This house has a rebuilt Thomas Ritchie pump (much like you would get from Veneer Supplies for vacuum veneering) and we've had it 4 years. It runs 24/7 for 7 months a year and hasn't missed a lick yet.

[Mr_Mike]

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Mr. Mike, our last pond was 3/4 acres, and we moved where the one we have now is 1/2 acre. In both cases I installed aerators and after reading and studying everything I could find I wound up putting in what amounts to oiless pumps that use a diffuser that lays on the bottom of the deepest part of the pond. The ones that float on the surface like the fountains can get clogged with the floating algae crap and are kind of a pain ot clean. The diffuser type doesn't have that problem, and it keeps the water circulating in a way that the temp/oxygen content stays uniform. That's important in case of a heavy spring rain that can wind up killing the fish. The first pump I had was a Gast, and I left that setup at the house when we sold it. This house has a rebuilt Thomas Ritchie pump (much like you would get from Veneer Supplies for vacuum veneering) and we've had it 4 years. It runs 24/7 for 7 months a year and hasn't missed a lick yet.

Thanks. How big are these pumps? I might just have a usable Gast pump laying around. Came out of a oxygen concentrator. I had plans on using it as a quite supplimental pump to keep the shop air topped up, but now have no need.

What do you do for an aerator? DIY or purchase something.

[Mr_Mike]

If you're going to pump water from the pond to the pond, at least run it thru a heat pump. Low cost heat and A.C. with a bonus. You'll have slightly warmer water for swimming in summer, and can ice-skate earlier in winter.


Or you can hang a 1/3-1/2 hp. well pump from a floating ring. You'll need a short "casing" (i.e. 4" sched 20 pipe) to ensure water flows around the motor for cooling. Tom might chime in here, but I think the current will decrease if you restrict the flow.

Not a useful idea. The pond is too far away and I'm not replacing a brand new HVAC unit. I like the well pump idea if I continue with the fountain idea. Fred makes a valid point on bottom aeration. It would be cheaper to run, but lacks the aesthetic quality of a fountain.

[JosephP]

<p>

Not a useful idea. The pond is too far away and I'm not replacing a brand new HVAC unit. I like the well pump idea if I continue with the fountain idea. Fred makes a valid point on bottom aeration. It would be cheaper to run, but lacks the aesthetic quality of a fountain.

</p><p>There is a guy at a nearby soil and water conservation district office who I do a lot of work with.&nbsp; Part of his job is helping people with pond design and construction specs.&nbsp; I've heard him say many times the bubblers are what you need for water quality and for keeping the thermal layers from "turning over" - acknowledging they are not as pretty as a fountain.&nbsp; When we see a pond with a fountain, sometimes he'll say something like "I should tell them that fountain isn't really helping their pond".</p><p><br></p><p>I claim no knowledge...but trust his experience, and it makes sense to "break" through those thermal layers so the pond doesn't turn over and get a fish kill.</p>

[$awdust]

Sorry Mike, I didn't know this thread still had legs.

I built just a ~12' diameter pond with a 20' "creek" feeding it.  I bought a pond kit with the liners, skimmer with UV, waterfall/filter and 5100 gph pump.  Won't have fish perhaps not plants.  May want to dump bleach in to keep it clean.  As I age, I am looking for low maintenance.

[Mr_Mike]

<p>
</p><p>There is a guy at a nearby soil and water conservation district office who I do a lot of work with.&nbsp; Part of his job is helping people with pond design and construction specs.&nbsp; I've heard him say many times the bubblers are what you need for water quality and for keeping the thermal layers from "turning over" - acknowledging they are not as pretty as a fountain.&nbsp; When we see a pond with a fountain, sometimes he'll say something like "I should tell them that fountain isn't really helping their pond".</p><p><br></p><p>I claim no knowledge...but trust his experience, and it makes sense to "break" through those thermal layers so the pond doesn't turn over and get a fish kill.</p>

I've heard that fountains are good to about 6 ft. Bubblers work regardless of depth. I'm going to try my oilless diaphram pump.

Sorry Mike, I didn't know this thread still had legs.

I built just a ~12' diameter pond with a 20' "creek" feeding it.  I bought a pond kit with the liners, skimmer with UV, waterfall/filter and 5100 gph pump.  Won't have fish perhaps not plants.  May want to dump bleach in to keep it clean.  As I age, I am looking for low maintenance.

It doesn't really as I'm back to it after 5 days from your post.
I have a 1/4 acre pond. I'm going to try to make my own bubbler from existing parts.