heat treating
#16
I managed to stay away from cyanide. That is a shallow case hardening job. John Deere tractor works used to do a lot of it. But they had fazed most of it out by around 1970.  The powder Timberwold used was more then likely a form of Cyanide powder. I haven't seen any of that in at least 50 years. 

 There could be something wrong with my thinking but why would someone buy w-1 and then oil quench it and visa versa buy spend the extra on O-1 and then water quench it. You can hear it when a piece of carburized steel cracks when it is quenched. It will pop when the metal  gets to about the temperature of the water. It happens most often when there are two different sizes in the same block. The crack will be in a sharp corner. 
D2, if it is not double drawn at around 700 degrees will crack if you cut it with a wire EDM machine.

I live by this saying. If you don't have time to do it right the first time how do you figure you have time to do it right the second time? and just like it, There is never enough time to do it right the first thine but there is always time to do it right the second time. The only thing it cost is time and material, and that is profit, not shop expense. 

You can do what you want to, but since I do not have the heat treat equipment and protective gear close at hand anymore. I send it to a place that does. If you have no experience heat treating then in my opinion you have no business doing it. 

Tom
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#17
(01-03-2022, 04:42 PM)tablesawtom Wrote: I managed to stay away from cyanide. That is a shallow case hardening job. John Deere tractor works used to do a lot of it. But they had fazed most of it out by around 1970.  The powder Timberwold used was more then likely a form of Cyanide powder. I haven't seen any of that in at least 50 years. 

 There could be something wrong with my thinking but why would someone buy w-1 and then oil quench it and visa versa buy spend the extra on O-1 and then water quench it. You can hear it when a piece of carburized steel cracks when it is quenched. It will pop when the metal  gets to about the temperature of the water. It happens most often when there are two different sizes in the same block. The crack will be in a sharp corner. 
D2, if it is not double drawn at around 700 degrees will crack if you cut it with a wire EDM machine.

I live by this saying. If you don't have time to do it right the first time how do you figure you have time to do it right the second time? and just like it, There is never enough time to do it right the first thine but there is always time to do it right the second time. The only thing it cost is time and material, and that is profit, not shop expense. 

You can do what you want to, but since I do not have the heat treat equipment and protective gear close at hand anymore. I send it to a place that does. If you have no experience heat treating then in my opinion you have no business doing it. 

Tom

I can't say for sure, but one reason to oil quench W1 would be to slow down martensite formation in thin sections.  One reason you would see brittle edges in steel is the very thin section cooled more quickly than the thicker sections, thus allowing more martensite to form.  Grinding back the edge (without overheating), gets to the steel with less martensite. Cracking after quenching often happens due to built up stresses that haven't been taken care of by post quench tempering. I had a supplier one time quench at the end of the day, with the intention of tempering the next morning. They'd arrive the next morning to cracked steel. The spec called for tempering NLT 2 hours after quenching. They later told me the night guard heard a noise that sounded like a gunshot. Yep. In that case, it was 4160 steel, but the principle is the same. Tempering relieves built up stresses.
Still Learning,

Allan Hill
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#18
(01-03-2022, 04:42 PM)tablesawtom Wrote: I managed to stay away from cyanide. That is a shallow case hardening job. John Deere tractor works used to do a lot of it. But they had fazed most of it out by around 1970.  The powder Timberwold used was more then likely a form of Cyanide powder. I haven't seen any of that in at least 50 years. 

 There could be something wrong with my thinking but why would someone buy w-1 and then oil quench it and visa versa buy spend the extra on O-1 and then water quench it. You can hear it when a piece of carburized steel cracks when it is quenched. It will pop when the metal  gets to about the temperature of the water. It happens most often when there are two different sizes in the same block. The crack will be in a sharp corner. 
D2, if it is not double drawn at around 700 degrees will crack if you cut it with a wire EDM machine.

I live by this saying. If you don't have time to do it right the first time how do you figure you have time to do it right the second time? and just like it, There is never enough time to do it right the first thine but there is always time to do it right the second time. The only thing it cost is time and material, and that is profit, not shop expense. 

You can do what you want to, but since I do not have the heat treat equipment and protective gear close at hand anymore. I send it to a place that does. If you have no experience heat treating then in my opinion you have no business doing it. 

Tom
............
I think Tony got it right in his last post when he talked about his "junkyard dog" machinist. Points out that there's sometimes more than one way to "skin a cat"..This is particularly true in a "job shop" unlike a production facility. Sometimes there isn't time to "do it right"...sometimes you do what you have to do to get things going...Like I learned during my five years in the Marines....you have to "improvise and overcome"...Otherwise you could die...But I would never buy 01 to water quench it. Just saying you could if you have to. Sometimes you don't know what type of steel you have. Like on the TV series "Forged in Fire"...every type of steel is hardened in oil...from ball bearings to bed springs....without any idea what type of steel it is. Sometimes it doesn't work out, but it's surprising how often it does...I tend to go by the old adage...
Aim high and settle".......
Big Grin
Big Grin
"If you don't read newspapers you're uninformed...If you do read newspapers, you're misinformed.....Mark Twain

Jack Edgar, Sgt. USMC Korea, the Forgotten War 50/55
Get off my lawn !
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#19
Timberwolf Wrote:“Aim high and settle”.......Big GrinBig Grin
Sounds more like the Air Force than the Marines.
Big Grin
Dave Arbuckle was kind enough to create a Sketchup model of my WorkMate benchtop: http://www.arbolloco.com/sketchup/MauleSkinnerBenchtop.skp
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#20
(01-05-2022, 11:48 PM)MauleSkinner Wrote: Sounds more like the Air Force than the Marines.
Big Grin

........
Hmmm..Well we cant be having that now......
Crazy
Big Grin
Big Grin
Big Grin
Big Grin
Big Grin
"If you don't read newspapers you're uninformed...If you do read newspapers, you're misinformed.....Mark Twain

Jack Edgar, Sgt. USMC Korea, the Forgotten War 50/55
Get off my lawn !
Upset





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