Lapping Fluid

[briman87]

Windex is all I use. Paul Sellers even suggest glass cleaner. If it is good enough for Paul its good enough for me.

[CStan]

Windex is all I use.  Paul Sellers even suggest glass cleaner.  If it is good enough for Paul its good enough for me.

You have to pay a little closer attention. Sellers uses auto glass cleaner which by design does not have ammonia.  Don't use Windex or generics which do contain ammonia and some much more than others.  Ammonia really has no day-to-day place in a woodshop.

[ChuckHill]

Other than the smell, what is the problem with ammonia?  I have not noticed any problems.

[Rob Young]

Other than the smell, what is the problem with ammonia?  I have not noticed any problems.

CStan will remember more but I think it is a reaction with nickel which is commonly used as part of the binding of the diamond particles to the steel backer plate.

Nothing dramatic will happen immediately (nickel + ammonia reactions can be very colorful) but eventually it may cause the diamond particles to work free of the plate and prematurely render the plate useless.

Or I could be remembering this completely wrong. High school chemistry was a very long time ago.

[adamcherubini]

Why are you using any fluid on a diamond plate? What is the purpose of that fluid? Is this a cleaner? DMT recommends using their products dry or sometimes with water only. Any lubricant with slow the cutting action.

The fluid we put on real stones is used to help reduce and remove swarf build up in the pores of the stone. The fluid chosen is based on the size of the pores for that particular stone. Diamond plates have no pores. You can clean them with a toothbrush.

We use oils on stones not for their lubricity, but because they have low enough surface tensions to creep into pores. Too low, they can be absorbed into the stone and not float the particles. Water’s surface tension is too high. It beads up. Soapy water is better. Soap lowers the surface tension of water, which is how and why it cleans our skin.

[Timberwolf]

Why are you using any fluid on a diamond plate? What is the purpose of that fluid? Is this a cleaner? DMT recommends using their products dry or sometimes with water only. Any lubricant with slow the cutting action.

The fluid we put on real stones is used to help reduce and remove swarf build up in the pores of the stone. The fluid chosen is based on the size of the pores for that particular stone. Diamond plates have no pores. You can clean them with a toothbrush.

We use oils on stones not for their lubricity, but because they have low enough surface tensions to creep into pores. Too low, they can be absorbed into the stone and not float the particles. Water’s surface tension is too high. It beads up. Soapy water is better. Soap lowers the surface tension of water, which is how and why it cleans our skin.

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Diamond plates have no pores.

If they have no "pores" what are the spaces on the surface "between" the diamond particles called.? The fluid is to remove the metal swarf which can impede the abrasive action taking place. It's like spreading jelly on your toast. Or asphalt on a gravel road....the surface becomes smoother...I have a couple of machines with diamond laps and I have found that WD40 works as good as anything for my sharpening with diamond abrasive...I prefer MS for stones that are porous throughout.

No argument intended...whatever works best is what folks should use..Sharing experiences is how we all learn.

[Tony Z]

I do not use diamonds or waterstones. On my Spyderco stones, I use water. On my natural oilstones, I use Marvel Mystery Oil.

[ChuckHill]

I use water or Windex (so far) on my diamond stones.  This is, as Timerberwolf said, to wash away the swarf.  I start with the stones wet so the swarf stays nearby.

[adamcherubini]

.........................
Diamond plates have no pores.

If they have no "pores" what are the spaces on the surface "between" the diamond particles called.? The fluid is to remove the metal swarf which can impede the abrasive action taking place. It's like spreading jelly on your toast.

Look, I could be wrong. Not my area of expertise. Here’s what I think:

The pores in stones, including man made stones like India are deep and have sharp sides. So deep, once they fill with swarf, you can’t just brush that off. Once that debris is packed in there, your blade rides on the swarf, the cutting crystals get dull, but really don’t break off and expose new edges because they are trapped by the swarf. We call that a clogged stone.

Once clogged, you can try hosing it down with more oil. Sometimes that helps. I put them in the dishwasher, guys soak them. It’s a problem.

We pre-fill the pores of our stones prior to sharpening, with a fluid that has sufficient properties to hold swarf particles up, where they can be wiped or washed off. At the end of a sharpening, I usually add more of the same oil, and wipe the stone clean with a clean cloth. My translucent Arkansas is still pretty white.

Diasharp uses steel plates as their substrate. Those plates don’t really have pores and, tho swarf can get trapped between the diamonds, you can wash or brush that off. It doesn’t much matter what you wash it with, but if you use oil, you are really decreasing the effectiveness of the diamonds. Diamonds are also way harder than the swarf, they don’t fracture to expose new cutting edges, so the 2 systems are really not similar.

So if a (ersatz) woodworker asks whether “Kroil, or acetone and ATF” is best for his diamond plates, and the answer he receives is “just use WD-40”, there’s a lot of confusion and misinformation there. They are mixing up what is needed for stones with convenient cleansers for diamond plates.

More:
If you put 3 in 1 oil on hard Arkansas, that may well be the wrong thing to do. Light oil is needed on the hard Arkansas. You need to match the surface tension of the fluid to the pore size. If the liquid beads up on top of the stone, that’s no good. Your blade will ride on that fluid film, hovering above the cutting edges below.

I like 3 in 1 for India and Ouachita. If you use tap magic or WD-40, that creeps down too far into the stone and supports nothing. You will see a lot of black on that stone and it won’t come off easily. WD-40 might be good for hard Arkansas, but it’s not good for India.

I’ve used Vaseline on crystolon. I think some come pre-packed with Vaseline (I think Joel from TFWW talked about this).

I’ve experimented with soapy water. Soap lowers the surface tension of water. It kinda works, but I’d sooner use windex on Arkansas in a pinch than dish soap. But dish soap does work pretty okay for India.

The goal is, understand what the function is for the material you apply to your sharpening stones, and you’ll be able to choose the best stuff for your gear. Make sense?

[MarkWells]

Couple of more data points.

I hone using 3M Microabrasive Film and baby oil.  I tried using it dry, but when I do that, the abrasive quickly stops cutting.  The baby oil seems to prevent that.

I grind using Mirka Gold 80 grit self-adhesive paper. That I use dry and clogging does not seem to be a problem.  I do occasionally brush the filings away.

Ages ago I tried a coarse crystolon stone for grinding at the recommendation of Brent Beach.   I think I used baby oil on that stone, but I can't remember.  What I do remember is that stone seemed to clog almost immediately and stopped cutting.  I corresponded with Beach a few times about it, but I never could make it work.  Maybe I should try cleaning it in the dishwasher and then use vaseline.

Mark