Generator Questions

[jteneyck]

A $20k generator install?  That’s easy. You need an outdoor rated 200 amp transfer switch instead of a 100 amp interior rated one. Setbacks and clearances mean the generator has to be much further away from the point of cable entry. Trenching cable and propane lines through a yard full of cables and sprinklers. A concrete pad to set it on. Removing or modifying fences to allow a propane tank into the yard plus future access for filling it. A PoCo charge to drop and replace the meter. Code required updates to service entrance and perhaps panel.   Lots of different things can pile up in a hurry.

People don't work for cheap in WNY.  My generator required a larger gas meter and over 100 ft of track pipe and power cable to get from the gas meter and main breaker box to where the generator had to be sited to meet code.  (What a pain that was.) The generator had to sit on a new concrete pad.  $7K plus tax.  If I include the 200 amp breaker I had installed 2 years prior to support the central AC and the generator I was planning for, you can add another $1500.  

Money aside, you just have to ask yourself what you would do if you're far away from home and you get a major power outage.  If you depend on a sump pump to keep your basement dry, you're toast.  If you have a freezer full of food, it's gone.  If it's wintertime, you're staring at all kinds of trouble.  

FWIW, if you do depend upon a sump pump to keep your basement dry, you should have two of them in the pit, each on separate circuits.  If one fails and also takes out the breaker when it does, the other will take over.  

And as long as I'm at it, it is a really good idea to install a remote activated main water shutoff valve.  Whenever I leave the house, I flip the switch and the valve closes.  Peace of mind.   There are electronic alternatives, too; I just went with the low cost, no fail option.  

John

[fredhargis]

Mark, I'm just curious about what your plan is? Has any of this made you re-think your approach? I'm not pimping one way or another...just curious.

[MarkSLSmith]

A $20k generator install?  That’s easy. You need an outdoor rated 200 amp transfer switch instead of a 100 amp interior rated one. Setbacks and clearances mean the generator has to be much further away from the point of cable entry. Trenching cable and propane lines through a yard full of cables and sprinklers. A concrete pad to set it on. Removing or modifying fences to allow a propane tank into the yard plus future access for filling it. A PoCo charge to drop and replace the meter. Code required updates to service entrance and perhaps panel.   Lots of different things can pile up in a hurry.

This sounds like the information I was receiving for the whole house generator.  I will need a green field propane installation.  I admit, $20k was a guesstimate.  I had a preliminary estimate of $13k for the generator (installed) and I don't have many details but I don't think it included the propane installation.  So maybe not $20k, but definitely north of $15k.

[MarkSLSmith]

Mark, I'm just curious about what your plan is? Has any of this made you re-think your approach? I'm not pimping one way or another...just curious.

Fred, 

I'm still dithering.  I am, however, still leaning to the portable generator, being careful to choose a model that is sized to my needs so as to be relatively gasoline efficient.  

My wife and I reviewed our experience after Helene.  Our primary needs after the hurricane were drinking water, toilet flushing, and showers.  The food in the refrigerator last about 4-5 days, and we prioritized eating stuff in the freezer.  We have no standalone freezer, sump pump, or any other critical electrical equipment.  A nice to have is a portable AC unit to keep one room comfortable for sleeping.  

In the winter, it is our policy to drain the water pipes and shut off the well pump if leaving for any period of time.  There is a small chance of pipe rupture at the well head, but this is a risk we have chosen to take.  If the power goes out while we are here, we have a good wood stove and a near infinite supply of firewood.  We can drip faucets to help prevent freezing the pipes.

Given our experience after Helene, operation of the well pump is far and away our most important criterion.  I'm just not convinced that this justifies the expense of a whole house system.  

Mark

[Snipe Hunter]

Sumpin else... We have a chest freezer in the garage. We keep about 20 of the large V8 jugs full of ice in that freezer. I can take that freezer off line for about 3 days to save fuel and everything stays frozen. Haven't had an outage more than 3 days since I started doing that. But we did it because I knocked out it's plug once and didn't know it and I think it was unplugged 2 or 3 days and food was thawing, The stuff at the bottom was colder but the food at the top got tossed. All that extra ice seems to help a good bit.

[fixtureman]

I guess I'm just lucky I have lived here for over 50 years and the longestour electric has been out was the big blackout in 2003.  I bought a stand by gen back a year and a half ago and the only time I started it was the day I got it.  It is propane and gas and I tried it with propane so I never added gas to it

[EightFingers]

A $20k generator install?  That’s easy. You need an outdoor rated 200 amp transfer switch instead of a 100 amp interior rated one. Setbacks and clearances mean the generator has to be much further away from the point of cable entry. Trenching cable and propane lines through a yard full of cables and sprinklers. A concrete pad to set it on. Removing or modifying fences to allow a propane tank into the yard plus future access for filling it. A PoCo charge to drop and replace the meter. Code required updates to service entrance and perhaps panel.   Lots of different things can pile up in a hurry.

Hotel room is cheaper

[Don_M]

Hotel room is cheaper

Now that is out of the box thinking!
 
And not to add any further options to this discussion – but a lot of folks out here in CA have opted for power walls - basically a large battery and inverters (and some also combine these w/ solar panels). I am not a huge fan because the ones I have seen are only rated for around 5kw – which isn’t much, so you would need at least a pair and I don’t think you would get much more than 8 hrs or so and only power basic household items (hence the solar for recharging during the day.)

[msweig]

Someone else mentioned the battery in the house option. Another way to get the battery is to just have an electric vehicle. There are $$$ ways to have the battery power most or all of the house at a higher current (like my vehicle with a 100kW battery can power my house for probably most of the day on a summer day in Houston. Take out the AC (say this happens in winter and I have gas heat) and it can be several days. But those systems run about $10,000, so I'm probably not putting one in.

But, the car also just has a regular outlet. So if I have a power outage I can put the vehicle in utility mode and run an extension cord. This would allow me to keep the fridge running, have a fan, etc. and would last for days.

So if you go with a portable generator (particularly for important things like a sump pump), and wish you had a bit more, just be aware that an EV might be able to provide that (assuming you get one down the line).

[crokett™]

Since you aren't going to run a heat pump, you can get by with 5500-6000 KW range pretty easily. I can't emphasize strongly enough that you need a dual-fuel and a propane tank. Skip the gasoline. I have been there. I also recommend a manual transfer switch. if you don't have one of those, then you will need a lockout on the main panel so that the breaker for the generator and the main can't be on at the same time. You will also have to be turning off breakers of circuits you don't want to power. A manual transfer switch you just wire the circuits you want to power through the transfer switch and it takes all the guesswork out.