Word from Grizzly...
#27
  Re: RE: Word from Grizzly... by gear jammer (Received an email fr...)
(07-11-2018, 11:42 PM)gear jammer Wrote: Received an email from Grizzly about whether or not I wanted the lathe I'd ordered early April. Wanted to confirm if I still wanted it with the price increase if applicable. Called the number on the email and told them yes I still wanted it. They stated about not wanting to ship and have it turned down afterward because of the increase. Also that it is due in early August to arrive and will check again before shipping to be sure. I know the tariff increase is not their doing and the production time is beyond their control so why lose any sleep over it.

I like the upfront info from them. I would bet they are scrambeling to make things right where ever they can and I can appreciate that way of doing business.

I know the price increase isn't Grizzly's fault, but, you are fine paying 125% of the price you agreed to pay in April for August delivery?
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#28
  Re: Word from Grizzly... by n7bsn (All tools made in Ch...)
I won't start an argument on something beyond Grizzly's control. Yes I'm okay with paying the plus side for the lathe. Don't care for it but I understand their dilemma. Would you eat the price difference if put in their shoes.  I like their putting the info out to let me make the decision ahead rather than in the eleventh hour.
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#29
  Re: RE: Word from Grizzly... by mbg ([quote='gear jammer'...)
(07-12-2018, 09:26 AM)mbg Wrote: I know the price increase isn't Grizzly's fault, but, you are fine paying 125% of the price you agreed to pay in April for August delivery?

Grizz stated in their price increase email that they were not happy about applying the increase to backordered items, but that they couldn't eat the loss if they sold them at the previous price.  Since they don't charge your card until it's shipped, there's an implication that there's no price contract.  I don't think it's the best way to win lifelong friends, but it tells me their margins on large power tools is pretty low.
Still Learning,

Allan Hill
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#30
  Re: RE: Word from Grizzly... by AHill ([quote='mbg' pid='76...)
(07-12-2018, 09:26 AM)mbg Wrote: I know the price increase isn't Grizzly's fault, but, you are fine paying 125% of the price you agreed to pay in April for August delivery?

(07-14-2018, 09:30 AM)AHill Wrote: Grizz stated in their price increase email that they were not happy about applying the increase to backordered items, but that they couldn't eat the loss if they sold them at the previous price.  Since they don't charge your card until it's shipped, there's an implication that there's no price contract.  I don't think it's the best way to win lifelong friends, but it tells me their margins on large power tools is pretty low.

I believe there are two issues here.  What did the fine print say in April.  If the find print did not say anything about price adjustments due to back-order, and they accepted the order, then they must honor the price.  However, most businesses have already covered themselves in this respect.  I have not Grizzly's agreements recently and I don't remember what it said when I did read it.  Therefore I cannot comment on whether, in my opinion, Grizzly is right of wrong legally.

The other issue is mentioned by AHill.  Papa Grizzly needs to weigh the risks, which he has done.  He will loose money if he eats the tariff.  He will loose some customers if he does not eat the tariff.  The question is, which is the best long term business decision.  If either one will force Grizzly into bankruptcy, the decision is obvious. 

I do hope that Papa Grizzly is focusing on the long term rather than having made a decision based on short term profits.  Either way he is in a tough position right now.

I will take my opinions about holding China's feet to the fire down to the basement.
1/1/2018 Zero Degrees F, I am sick and tired of this global warming.
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#31
  Re: RE: Word from Grizzly... by Cecil ([quote='mbg' pid='76...)
(07-14-2018, 11:07 AM)Cecil Wrote: I believe there are two issues here.  What did the fine print say in April.  If the find print did not say anything about price adjustments due to back-order, and they accepted the order, then they must honor the price.  However, most businesses have already covered themselves in this respect.  I have not Grizzly's agreements recently and I don't remember what it said when I did read it.  Therefore I cannot comment on whether, in my opinion, Grizzly is right of wrong legally.

The backorder terms haven't changed as I looked them up a while ago.  They say:

"Customers' orders for out-of-stock items are filled in the order we receive them, and we do not charge your credit card until we ship your order."

In the absence of specific terms governing order acceptance, you look to the Uniform Commercial Code, which says:

§ 2-206. Offer and Acceptance in Formation of Contract.

(1) Unless otherwise unambiguously indicated by the language or circumstances:

      (a) an offer to make a contract shall be construed as inviting acceptance in any manner and by any medium reasonable in the circumstances;
      (b) an order or other offer to buy goods for prompt or current shipment shall be construed as inviting acceptance either by a prompt promise to ship or by the prompt or current shipment of conforming or non-conforming goods, but such a shipment of non-conforming goods does not constitute an acceptance if the seller seasonably notifies the buyer that the shipment is offered only as an accommodation to the buyer.

So, in the absence of other terms and conditions,  buyer would place an online order, acceptance by seller would be shipping promptly or promising to ship promptly.  Grizzly did neither, it was backordered, so acceptance would then occur upon the promise to ship promptly.  Under these circumstances, order acceptance is simply shipment, and charging your card; however, there remains the opportunity of the seller to make a counter offer prior to initial acceptance, which is what is going on here, as conditions have changed through no fault of the seller, i.e., domestic tariff increase, so the counter offer of the seller (presuming seller did not promise to ship promptly on the original terms) would be the new price adjusted solely for the tariff.

In any event, a buyer could sue Grizzly for breach of contract, but IMHO they would have an uphill climb.  Also, it would depend on the applicable state law, which really can vary, and it depends on whether its a consumer or corporate purchase, as different rules could apply.  But either way, I think the order acceptance is the shipment or promise to ship; all you get online is an order acknowledgement, and then typically a follow up confirmation of shipment, which is the true legal acceptance.
Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
Non impediti ratione cogitationis
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#32
  Re: Word from Grizzly... by n7bsn (All tools made in Ch...)
No consideration, no contract.
Things would be a lot different if there was a down payment.
VH07V  
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