+- Woodnet Forums (https://forums.woodnet.net)
+-- Thread: Woodgears.ca power feeder (/showthread.php?tid=7333274)
RE: Woodgears.ca power feeder - Phil Thien - 09-18-2017
(09-18-2017, 03:11 PM)JGrout Wrote: Of course not well at least until you add 10-12" to the axle.
I cannot bend a 1" axle in my hands I absolutely cannot do that.
But I can bend a 12" long round bar up to gosh 3/8" with a little effort.
now you are ignoring physics to promote this.
Stop
That is because you eat your spinach.
This thread just keeps getting better and better.
RE: Woodgears.ca power feeder - Alan S - 09-18-2017
(09-18-2017, 03:11 PM)JGrout Wrote: Of course not well at least until you add 10-12" to the axle.I borrowed a couple of Matthias's images. It does not look to me that the length of the axle is a problem: the bearing is right at the wheel. Am I missing something?
I cannot bend a 1" axle in my hands I absolutely cannot do that.
But I can bend a 12" long round bar up to gosh 3/8" with a little effort.
now you are ignoring physics to promote this.
Stop
![[Image: baseboard38.jpg]](http://woodgears.ca/home/baseboard38.jpg)
![[Image: baseboard44.jpg]](http://woodgears.ca/home/baseboard44.jpg)
RE: Woodgears.ca power feeder - JGrout - 09-18-2017
(09-18-2017, 04:09 PM)Alan S Wrote: I borrowed a couple of Matthias's images. It does not look to me that the length of the axle is a problem: the bearing is right at the wheel. Am I missing something?
Yes the ability for the force of the stock to overcome the weak spring holding the stock down.
The only way this works is with a proper drive train and wheels designed to drive stock.
none of that criteria has been or ever will be met.
RE: Woodgears.ca power feeder - 6270_Productions - 09-18-2017
(09-18-2017, 04:09 PM)Alan S Wrote: I borrowed a couple of Matthias's images. It does not look to me that the length of the axle is a problem: the bearing is right at the wheel. Am I missing something?
Yes, you are missing something.
At 4:14 you will note that he is speaking about his "improved improvised feeder gadget".
The screen shot photos you posted show this improvement.
Some are not interested in any improvements (even those in the same video). The focus here seems to be on the overall initial concept of the "feeder gadget" and not the potential for improvements.
I really have no idea what the comments might be, if he replaces the roller skate wheel with something having a greater grip - or perhaps a stronger spring on the adjustment knob.
Of course, the "improved improvised feeder gadget" is being used on the router table and not the table saw. Still the potential for kick back and finger cuts exist. (I probably should not even mention that his router table is just a piece of plywood clamped to some sawhorses with the router held onto the plywood with some wood screws and flat washers.)
With seven stitches in my right index finger, I do have a little experience on improvised router tables. I spent approximately $1,000 on my current router table to reduce that possibility. Yes, I said "reduce". After working wood for more than 40 years, I have found the only guaranteed way to not have the potential for injury is to stay out of the Shop. Every time I look at my left wrist I see my worst scar from my woodworking shop. That was from a 1/2" chisel being fed by my right arm.
RE: Woodgears.ca power feeder - Phil Thien - 09-18-2017
(09-18-2017, 04:52 PM)JGrout Wrote: Yes the ability for the force of the stock to overcome the weak spring holding the stock down.
The only way this works is with a proper drive train and wheels designed to drive stock.
none of that criteria has been or ever will be met.
I should just toss all my plastic feather boards I use to hold stock to the fence and table in the trash, they're not even as strong as that steel axel, or the spring.
RE: Woodgears.ca power feeder - jteneyck - 09-18-2017
(09-18-2017, 03:57 PM)Phil Thien Wrote: I did not say kickback won't occur, but that it will be marginalized because the wood didn't see the top of the blade. Marginalized was my exact word. It looks like you now agree w/ me.
In terms of your defining the purpose of the feeder to be exclusively one of finish quality, well, I don't know what to do with you. You're taking these obtuse positions when a little googling will lead to an abundance of evidence that power feeders are often used to increase safety. OSHA likes them, and OSHA doesn't care about your finish quality, only your fingers.
Actually, you said this:
Phil Thien Wrote: Maybe you had your blade adjusted too low. If the wood can't contact the teeth at the top of the blade, the blade cannot impart substantial forward energy to the stock.
Your definition of substantial energy suggests any kickback that doesn't go over the top of the blade will be "marginalized" to use your words. The big dent in my boiler's door, 12 ft behind my TS, is proof that ain't always so.
And I didn't say a power feeder doesn't keep your hands away from the blade; of course it does by it's very nature. What I said was it has a greater purpose than that, primarily consistency of production and quality. Anything that takes the operator out of the equation would be favored by OSHA and, in this case, by business as well. But you can get the same safety benefits in a hobby shop with time proven safety devices: featherboards, board buddies, and push sticks. Which ever route is used, your hands should be no where near the blade. You keep harping on Wendell's device as offering a major safety benefit because your hands aren't near the blade. They shouldn't be there in the first place, nor in any case.
I hope others will sort through your hyping an unproven device used w/o backup safety devices and recognize it is not something to be duplicated.
John
RE: Woodgears.ca power feeder - JGrout - 09-18-2017
(09-18-2017, 05:29 PM)Phil Thien Wrote: I should just toss all my plastic feather boards I use to hold stock to the fence and table in the trash, they're not even as strong as that steel axel, or the spring.
Uh Phil plastic and wooden featherboards that have been reacted against as in a kickback should be thrown in the trash. But how could you know that when you cannot even determine what kickback is
And once again you are ignoring the physics of force you know for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction
the potential for that opposite reaction to end up at best in the wall behind your saw is very very real
RE: Woodgears.ca power feeder - Phil Thien - 09-18-2017
(09-18-2017, 02:46 PM)jteneyck Wrote: The purpose of a power feeder isn't to keep your hands away from the blade. Its purpose is to propel the wood through the cutter at constant speed and with constant force against the table and fence so that the cut quality is improved over what can be achieved by hand feeding.
(09-18-2017, 06:18 PM)jteneyck Wrote: And I didn't say a power feeder doesn't keep your hands away from the blade; of course it does by it's very nature. What I said was it has a greater purpose than that, primarily consistency of production and quality.
"STEFF Automatic Power Feeders allow even an unskilled operator to work safely since the need for hands and fingers to be near the cutting tool is virtually eliminated. Furthermore, as the rollers/belts hold the stock in place, kickback possibilities are practically eliminated. Also, the finish cut of your product is uniform and free of defects associated with uneven stop/start feeding of your product."
Source: https://www.steff-usa.com/Maggi-Steff-Feeders-s/1821.htm
They mention safety first, of course. That is just common sense.
Seriously, duh.
RE: Woodgears.ca power feeder - Phil Thien - 09-18-2017
(09-18-2017, 06:46 PM)JGrout Wrote: Uh Phil plastic and wooden featherboards that have been reacted against as in a kickback should be thrown in the trash. But how could you know that when you cannot even determine what kickback is
And once again you are ignoring the physics of force you know for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction
the potential for that opposite reaction to end up at best in the wall behind your saw is very very real
My plastic featherboards haven't seen a kickback.
But they aren't steel, either.
If you don't think steel is strong enough, how can a plastic feather board be strong enough?
Run along and PM John now, figure out your next course of attack.
RE: Woodgears.ca power feeder - DrNewton - 09-18-2017
Anyone that calls Matthias a flake has lost all credibility.
However if you do want to demonstrate his safety record, he did cut his thumb a few weeks ago reaching over a running blade to shut off his dust collector. He subsequently made a video about it and the changes he made to his shop setup to prevent it from happening again.