Battle of the bureaucrats continues UPDATE!!!

[Bob10]

I told the guy at Planning and Zoning that our house plans were not finalized, that I only included them with the plans for my shop because they wanted them as proof we were planning to build a house, not just a shop.

Got the house plans back today with a note that they didn't meet requirements and that we had to revise them and submit them in "architectural scale".

But he said nothing about the shop plans which was the whole point of the exercise.


I just love working with people whose goal in life is insuring their job is secure by making other folks jump through hoops.


Not much of a rant 'cause I'm too bummed out.


EDIT for Monday morning:

Went in to the office and was told the guy who wrote the letter was in Florida for the week.  Lady at the counter (an administrative assistant) remembered my last visit and was sympathetic with my situation.  I explained it once more and she thought about it and decided we only needed a permit for the barn and she could give us that.

So I can start my barn while LOML finishes the house plans.  :bigsighofrelief:

It pays to be nice to the help -- they have to put up with their bosses full time, not just occasionally!

Start work immediately!!

[Stwood_]

[tomsteve]

Got the house plans back today with a note that they didn't meet requirements and that we had to revise them and submit them in "architectural scale".

shows how buidling/zoning depts vary from area to area.
about 10 years ago i helped a friend with no framing experience put a roof over his deck. deck attatched to house and roof would be the same. he said he wasnt gonna worry about a permit. allrighty then!
first day we got the posts for the roof all set in footings and a bit more done. im pullin out of his drive and building inspector was pulling in.i was smiling- wouldnt ya know it- out in the middle of BFE and the building inspector shows up!
call when i get home from friend. said inspector halted until he had prints to approve. my friend is a bit anal and i said we should go up and see how detailed he wanted the prints.
we go up and the inspector was there. ask him our question. he pulls out a ruler and some paper and starts drawing lines. asks a few questions.
'how deep are footings/ width of roof? length? rafter size? ridge size?" a few more.
writing numbers on the piece of paper with the lines.
then approves it and gives the permit.

[Splinter Puller]

Part of the reason many building and zoning departments have gotten more strict in their plan requirements...

https://www.ndcourts.gov/court/opinions/20030295.htm

City sued for issuing building permit on substandard constructed house.

[Admiral]

Part of the reason many building and zoning departments have gotten more strict in their plan requirements...

https://www.ndcourts.gov/court/opinions/20030295.htm

City sued for issuing building permit on substandard constructed house.

Interesting reading that piqued my interest, as this decision is an outlier as it imposed liability on a municipality for public duty actions, which a large majority of states do not allow.  But this was back in 2004, and note the dissent by the chief justice where the question of whether this result is required by N.D.C.C. § 32-12.1-03(1), and when I looked it up it seems they must have subsequently added 32-12.1-03(3)(f) to this "Limitations of Liability" section, which reads:

f. A claim relating to injury directly or indirectly caused by the performance or
nonperformance of a public duty, including:
(1) Inspecting, licensing, approving, mitigating, warning, abating, or failing to so
act regarding compliance with or the violation of any law, rule, regulation, or
any condition affecting health or safety

..... and if this subsection was indeed available in 2004, it would clearly eliminate municipal liability for negligent building code enforcement and would have been noticed by the court and viewed as being dispositive of the question of liability, so I wonder if the legislature amended the statute after this decision - as this case law loophole could cost the towns lots of dough - but I couldn't get the legislative history online so I don't know when or if it was amended.  Such things are carved out by most states, here in NJ its called the "Tort Claims Act," and you can sue the state only for the things they let you sue them for.  This concept is based on the common law concept of "Sovereign Immunity," e.g., you can't sue the King.... unless he says its ok! 

Bottom line, don't rely on the result of this decision without first having a ND lawyer validate it is still good law.  Here's a link to the statute in question:

https://law.justia.com/codes/north-dakot...er-32-12.1

[Gary G™]

If a political jurisdiction isn't liable for failing to properly inspect construction and make certain said jurisdiction's code is met, why should anyone pay their permit fees and be subject to exactions and fees?

[EricU]

if it was really insurance for future buyers, you would have to pay a lot more for permitting fees to pay for re-insurance.  And they would be a lot worse about allowing exceptions.  Engineer signature on everything not directly in the inspector's experience, for example.  We're probably better off with the status quo.

[Admiral]

If a political jurisdiction isn't liable for failing to properly inspect construction and make certain said jurisdiction's code is met, why should anyone pay their permit fees and be subject to exactions and fees?

Because they can make mistakes, and all of the taxpayers have to pay for their mistakes.  Chit happens.  On the whole, society is better off with at least the semblance of conformance to building codes.  Otherwise, chaos ensues and there are no standards.

[MartyRA]

Well, there was a time when anyone could build anything they wanted without regard to whether it was a fire hazard or might just fall down and kill everyone inside. That's why we have these regulations. 
Have they gone overboard in many places? Absolutely and some are written with building materials suppliers in mind so they can sell you all those fancy dodads that drive up the costs of building. 
But think how it might be if say the total nitwit down the street is allowed to erect a 40 story building made of mud and sticks..just because he can.. It'll probably fall down and probably land on top of your house, but what the heck..No regulations said he couldn't..
You can't regulate stupid, but it's generally a good idea to regulate what stupid people are allowed to do.

[Gary G™]

Admiral
You're opinion and you're welcome to it.
To me, it's a weak excuse for not doing a proper job one is paid to do.