Taytools Trying to Trademark "Moxon Vise"

[MauleSkinner]

One would think, but the University of Kentucky is always suing over the use of the word Kentucky claiming they have it trademarked. They even sued the state itself at one point.

Hmmm…I wonder how smart I’d be if I hadn’t dropped out of college…

[Handplanesandmore]

Oh, bang.... just googled, never heard of them.  Looks like a lot of cheap stuff, life is too short for chitty tools.

Cheap stuff, like those F clamps we can find at HF, can be good value stuff, esp when it isn't something hi tech or high precision. I have some much more expensive Bessey F clamps (made in Germany as well as later, made in China) that I can't find any difference from the HF F clamps in use. Things like imported metal stamps or steel  rulers are massed produced and sold so cheaply that it makes no sense for me to buy them at twice the price.

But when it comes to premium tools and machines that I rely on for most of my work, I go for quality and service support like sawstop, Festool, L-N, Veritas and local merchants. I pay for the out of the box convenience and quality. If I can afford the tools and use them often...why not?

Simon

[Jonathan Katz-Moses]

Very interesting discussion about  "Trademark Trolls" : https://www.reddit.com/r/handtools/comme...trademark/

Apparently there is still time to object; perhaps BenchCrafted should be interested in opposing this as if granted they could be forced to pay for/or have to litigate the right to use the term.  Pretty slimy attempt; they are also trying to trademark "Scary Sharp".

Edit:  link to Taytools website where they use "TM" after Moxon Vise.  https://taytools.com/pages/search-result...rdware+kit

UPDATE ON APPLICATION
Just an update. I spoke with Taytools. Although well intentioned to protect duplicate listings from overseas companies on Amazon, who steal product pictures and copy exactly, we agreed that nobody should be the arbiter of who gets to use a common woodworking term. They have dropped their application. - Jonathan Katz-Moses

[Handplanesandmore]

who steal product pictures and copy exactly

The other day, I saw a Woodpeckers drilling guide for sale at 20%? of its price at one of the knockoff sites. The pictures are taken from the WP site of course. Some parts are made of plastic, not aluminum (if one looks closely at the details)!

By the way, what Taytools is trying to do is futile and won't stop the copying! Many will still buy the infringed products for their low prices from all those overseas vendors.

Simon

[Admiral]

UPDATE ON APPLICATION
Just an update. I spoke with Taytools. Although well intentioned to protect duplicate listings from overseas companies on Amazon, who steal product pictures and copy exactly, we agreed that nobody should be the arbiter of who gets to use a common woodworking term. They have dropped their application. - Jonathan Katz-Moses

What about Scary Sharp and 1-2-3 Blocks?  They are not doing themselves any favors....

[Tony Z]

Until such time that TayTools stops all of this foolishness, I will not purchase any more of their products. Fact of the matter is, TayTools appears to be a copier of other tool makers.

[Admiral]

Interesting thread over at r/handtools; to summarize:


'' [–]jrkib8[S] 40 points 5 hours ago
There was a post a few weeks back by u/PetuniaSunshine where they found out that Taytools was trademarking 'Moxon Vise'. Obviously this lead to a lot of anti-TayTools sentiment.

I had commented that I knew Katz-Moses was a TayTools guy and suggested hitting up his videos that do reference TayTools for his awareness.

Well, little did I expect, but JKM, u/jkatzmoses actually responded that he'd reach out to Taytools, to push back. Even better was today's follow-up that after discussing this with them, TayTools dropped the application.

Respect to u/jkatzmoses, it was a long shot and I couldnt believe you replied in the first place, let alone followed through. I'm also glad TayTools, regardless if the original reasoning was justified to protect foreign imitators on Amazon, decided to not be another example of the corporate anti-competitive tactics that we're seeing in this and many industries

Lastly, thank you u/PetuniaSunshine for raising this in the first place

Original Post

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[–]jkatzmoses 80 points 4 hours ago*
I really appreciate you sharing this and taking the time to update people. Anyone who watches my channel knows that I firmly believe that woodworking should be accessible to all. My company Katz-Moses Tools and charity, The Katz-Moses Woodworkers with Disabilities Fund are both founded on this principle and my team lives by the mantra "people before profits."

Taytools has always been a company I have had a great relationship with because they believe in quality tools, supporting the community and have managed to keep their family owned vibe over the years. They were very receptive to my call yesterday. As I said in my update post, their intentions were simply to keep overseas companies from copying and pasting their listings on Amazon. Once we had an opportunity to discuss the possible implications we quickly found a resolution.

Instead of trying to protect certain terms from overseas copycats, potentially causing a stampede to protect all common woodworking terms, I am going to form a coalition of smaller, family owned woodworking tool suppliers to band together to protect from overseas IP offenders. This will include a legal fund and a computer based service that scrapes the USPTO website for specific terms so that we can file opposition paperwork quickly before the opposition period ends. Often times, terms like "river table (haha)" for example, get claimed because no one knew they were filed and someone at the trademark office doesn't have a clue how to research terms related to specific crafts. Then, because no one is paying attention they get approved. We intend to change that and protect woodworking to the best of our ability so that we can ENSURE that it remains fair and free for everyone to participate in and sell their custom made wares without fear of a take down notice."


WELL, I don't buy this "spin" at all.This has nothing at all to do with protecting "family owned" tool suppliers, who do nothing but import cheap chinese made tools and tag with their brand. I'd be sympathetic if there was real innovation and manufacturing of unique tools, but this is simply not the case. This is an intellectual property grab, plain and simple, so let's not fool ourselves with this 'spin' on somehow protecting a small business. Show me true innovation and production of unique tool designs and I'll be happy to buy this rationale, but so far, I'm sorry I don't buy this "retro" rationale.

[Tony Z]

It is one thing to take a design and improve on it. It’s completely another to copy without innovation other than perhaps a color change.

[Handplanesandmore]

"I am going to form a coalition of smaller, family owned woodworking tool suppliers to band together to protect from overseas IP offenders. This will include a legal fund and a computer based service that scrapes the USPTO website for specific terms so that we can file opposition paperwork quickly before the opposition period ends."

Who is the offender? Amazon, Alibaba, or the small merchants located thousands of miles away?

Where is the legal suit to be filed? In the US and against the company owned by one of the world's richest? Or in a Chinese/Asian court against a small family company that shares a business address with several other dozen vendors?

Sounds like these people who came up with such an idea are working in the academia.

Simon

[AHill]

On TayTools' website, they are selling float glass for Scary Sharp, Moxon Vise hardware, and 1-2-3 Setup Blocks. They added the TM symbol after all of those. So, it doesn't look like their apology and withdrawal of the trademark for Moxon Vise or any of their other attempts to trademark common woodworking tool names has made any difference. They aren't following through on their promise.

https://taytools.com/collections/new-pro...=grid-view
https://taytools.com/pages/search-result...+up+blocks