Paul Sellers sharpening system, which diamond stones?

[AHill]

I really don't care if Sellers doesn't prep his wood using power tools.  Plenty of WN members are hybrid woodworkers.  Maybe only a handful actually prep raw stock using only handtools.  He's a good woodworker, and I think there are things many of us can learn from his techniques.  I wonder how many of you naysayers know he has made furniture that is in the White House Oval Office?

[Timberwolf]

Yeah, that was already my feeling, but I don't have a better way yet and that is what I have to sharpen, other than the Lap Sharp, Scary Sharp, or India stones.

That round diamond sound like a good one to use with a drawknife or adz. I like to secure the blade and use the stone to sharpen from above.

There is some irony on the Internet, I see people claiming how little Seller's knows, and I'm certainly not defending him, but he's doing his still and getting it done, opposed to being perfect and the world's best critic on the Internet. When I do that they belittle me, go figure...
It doesn't take long ti figure out who the blowhards are on the forum at any given time. A couple have proven that here on Woodnet.

Let's all go build something, even if you make a mistake, just do it and get something built. If you enjoy sharpening, now would be a good time to just spend some time with some tunes playing in the background and get some edge tools sharp.

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Allan, that Lap Sharp machine is as good as they come, IMO..Put an 8" diamond lap on it and really make it sing!!!!! The fellow that built them was a woodnet member and he and I had some enjoyable conversations about it and how it was made....IIRC, the rotation was reversible, which can come in handy at times...The rotational speed is about the same as my Foley Belsaw diamond sharpening machine..It came with a 6" diamond sintered lap which does a great job with the 600grit plate. The slower rpm gives better control..

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/l...-472998783

[bandit571]

J.A.S.T.


Just...Another....Sharpening...Thread.....

[Timberwolf]

J.A.S.T.


Just...Another....Sharpening...Thread.....

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Yep.....C.B.W. {could be worse}..

[adamcherubini]

I really don't care if Sellers doesn't prep his wood using power tools.  Plenty of WN members are hybrid woodworkers.  Maybe only a handful actually prep raw stock using only handtools.  He's a good woodworker, and I think there are things many of us can learn from his techniques.  I wonder how many of you naysayers know he has made furniture that is in the White House Oval Office?

I get you. I would have wanted him to make the point this way: “I’ve used this plane for everything people use planes for and it worked adequately with this level of sharpening”

By focusing only on surface finishing machine prepared stock, he reinforced the point that surface finish is the only use of a plane.

We don’t all sharpen our planes solely to produce surface finish. Some of us sharpen our planes to ease the removal of wood. That’s why it’s worth honing our tools beyond 600 grit. It’s not just surface finish. Then there’s edge retention.

Sorry if this sounds like I’m splitting hairs. I get the bigger point about how sharp can be sharp enough. I think the way he formulated the argument was unfortunate.

[Ricky]

We don’t all sharpen our planes solely to produce surface finish. Some of us sharpen our planes to ease the removal of wood. That’s why it’s worth honing our tools beyond 600 grit. It’s not just surface finish. Then there’s edge retention.

Sorry if this sounds like I’m splitting hairs. I get the bigger point about how sharp can be sharp enough. I think the way he formulated the argument was unfortunate.

It almost sounds like we watched different videos.  He mentioned easier removal of wood when planing (by saying he did feel less resistance in the higher grit).  And he gave example of the necessity of higher grit finishes such as the inside of violins (20K grit).
I guess his main point was that many generations built beautiful furniture, homes, mouldings, carpentry etc.  without using uber grits.

And also that there is a lot of confusing product information out there for newbies.
Anyway, I'm grateful for anyone willing to share their knowledge and experience.  

[TraditionalToolworks]

I really don't care if Sellers doesn't prep his wood using power tools.  Plenty of WN members are hybrid woodworkers.  Maybe only a handful actually prep raw stock using only handtools.  He's a good woodworker, and I think there are things many of us can learn from his techniques.  I wonder how many of you naysayers know he has made furniture that is in the White House Oval Office?

This ^^^^

I'm quoting that in it's entirety as it really echos what I tried to describe. I not only think, but I have learned a few things from Seller's over the years...can't saying anything specific but I have seen many of his projects and videos over the years. I think he's a very creditable craftsman. I am a hybrid type person also, so I can see how folks that do not use power for anything at all may not care for him, but only hand tools is just not not very practical for me.

Allan, that Lap Sharp machine is as good as they come, IMO..Put an 8" diamond lap on it and really make it sing!!!!! The fellow that built them was a woodnet member and he and I had some enjoyable conversations about it and how it was made....IIRC, the rotation was reversible, which can come in handy at times...The rotational speed is about the same as my Foley Belsaw diamond sharpening machine..It came with a 6" diamond sintered lap which does a great job with the 600grit plate. The slower rpm gives better control..

OMG, I never thought to do that...see, this thread just taught me something! I have a bunch of disks I got from Don in several grits, but hadn't thought about buying a Chinesium diamond wheel to use on the Lap Sharp, thank you for mentioning that. Can you use those dry or do you use a slurry?

I use a 6" diamond wheel on the side of my bench grinder, I sharpen tungsten on it for tig welding. Tungsten is tough stuff...I use small diamond wheels in an adapter on the dremel also, but the flat one that bolts to the side really works nice. I spin the tungsten in a drill when I grind the point on them.

That's the unit at that link. Don used my unit as a demo and I bought it from him at a great discount. He's also spoken at the yearly BAG get together each year...he had bought a Victorian house in Windsor, CA and was remodeling it, all types of cool stuff, steaming wood to make the stair railing, stuff like that. I also have the adapter that goes on top for chisels and hand plane blades. It allows you to precisely clamp at an angle of your selection.

It works really well, my only complaint is that it is not quick to do properly, but once the blade is done the first time, and mostly flattening the back, it's not nearly as time consuming. The Lap Sharp will get a perfectly sharpened edge without having to use the "ruler trick". I have used it in the past, I thank Charleswoth's contribution to the woodworking community in general, but the Lap Sharp will give you a perfectly sharpened blade without the need to use the ruler.

I think the way he formulated the argument was unfortunate.

I agree, and it seems like that's what it gets down to, the words he used when spouting into the camera that so few others do in fear that the same Internet microscope will be held upon themselves if they do. Why don't you do a bunch more videos so any armchair woodworkers can criticize all pick apart any grammar or terminology is misstated. Certainly you'd like that, right??? *gd&r*

[Timberwolf]

This ^^^^

I'm quoting that in it's entirety as it really echos what I tried to describe. I not only think, but I have learned a few things from Seller's over the years...can't saying anything specific but I have seen many of his projects and videos over the years. I think he's a very creditable craftsman. I am a hybrid type person also, so I can see how folks that do not use power for anything at all may not care for him, but only hand tools is just not not very practical for me.

OMG, I never thought to do that...see, this thread just taught me something! I have a bunch of disks I got from Don in several grits, but hadn't thought about buying a Chinesium diamond wheel to use on the Lap Sharp, thank you for mentioning that. Can you use those dry or do you use a slurry?

I use a 6" diamond wheel on the side of my bench grinder, I sharpen tungsten on it for tig welding. Tungsten is tough stuff...I use small diamond wheels in an adapter on the dremel also, but the flat one that bolts to the side really works nice. I spin the tungsten in a drill when I grind the point on them.

That's the unit at that link. Don used my unit as a demo and I bought it from him at a great discount. He's also spoken at the yearly BAG get together each year...he had bought a Victorian house in Windsor, CA and was remodeling it, all types of cool stuff, steaming wood to make the stair railing, stuff like that. I also have the adapter that goes on top for chisels and hand plane blades. It allows you to precisely clamp at an angle of your selection.

It works really well, my only complaint is that it is not quick to do properly, but once the blade is done the first time, and mostly flattening the back, it's not nearly as time consuming. The Lap Sharp will get a perfectly sharpened edge without having to use the "ruler trick". I have used it in the past, I thank Charleswoth's contribution to the woodworking community in general, but the Lap Sharp will give you a perfectly sharpened blade without the need to use the ruler.

I agree, and it seems like that's what it gets down to, the words he used when spouting into the camera that so few others do in fear that the same Internet microscope will be held upon themselves if they do. Why don't you do a bunch more videos so any armchair woodworkers can criticize all pick apart any grammar or terminology is misstated. Certainly you'd like that, right??? *gd&r*

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I use the lap with a very light lube like WD40 but any thin liquid will work. Just a few drops is enough...it's just going to sling it off if it turns too fast.....You can also use them dry and remove embedded swarf with a crepe rubber eraser and it's much cleaner.. I don't know if any younger guys will remember but in the "olden days" you could buy shoes with crepe rubber soles..You will get lots more mileage out of the laps if you only use light pressure.

[ChuckHill]

Like to hear more, Chuck. Are there any comparisons? I’ve heard people say the DMT diasharps are not flat enough.

The Atoma appear to be 10” X 4”. I don’t love wide stones. Like to hear others opinions.

Sorry Adam, I missed this before.  I only have subjective observations, but I am not alone in observing this.  They cut faster (wear away metal more quickly) and retain their cutting action longer (ignoring the break-in period).  This is especially noticeable in the coarser grits.  The 10x4 must be packaging size (assuming you are looking at Amazon).  The actual stones are around 8x3 (the sizes are metric so not exact in imperial).  

As for flatness, I have not noticed any problems with either the DMT or Atoma in this regard.  And our forbears did excellent work with natural stones that were less than absolutely flat.  For me the main advantage of Atoma over DMT is less time spent sharpening.

[AHill]

As for flatness, I have not noticed any problems with either the DMT or Atoma in this regard.  And our forbears did excellent work with natural stones that were less than absolutely flat.  For me the main advantage of Atoma over DMT is less time spent sharpening.

I wonder if our forebears were aware of the 3-stone method to get things flat.  Otherwise, we'd see a lot of very wavy surfaces on antique furniture.  There are a lot of vintage sharpening stones that are dished.  I believe the vast majority of dished stones came from tradesmen and farmers who only owned one stone.  I also think we forget that they used sandstone grinders from which they could still get a decent edge and straight bevel.